Update on loss of Turbo Boost and check Transmission light

[Tom Warner]

Well Roin maybe a little. But I cant understand why any shop that
advertises they work on class 8 trucks cannot work on the engines and
transmissions of our motorhomes. Working on only a portion and then
recommending another dealer for further diagnosis only makes it
difficult or impossible to pinpoint the blame when the dealer does
something wrong. At the hourly wages charged today for diesel repair
work we should expect experts to do the job.

But I absolutely agree on your assessment of poor maintenance causing
many of these problems. To many owners are worried more about their
paint jobs and interiors then putting money into the preventative
maintenance on their engines, transmissions and running gear etc. Its
the old saying "pay me now or pay me later". Works every time only
later is far more expensive.

tom warner
vernon center,ny
1985 PT 40

At 10:48 AM 12/8/2006, you wrote:
>Tom:
>
> You are jumping the gun here with a call for 100% refund from
>shops. Perhaps the first one, which falsely gave the Bonsers a clear
>slate on the filter. Industrial Automatic was diagnosing a
>transmission code showing low voltage to a throttle sensor. There was
>no engine fault code. They did recommend taking it to an engine outfit
>and that ended up being Stewart & Stevenson who diagnosed the problem.
>
> It is unfortunate that all shops are not capable in dealing with
>all the problems encountered with these rigs. Most of these problems
>end up being a result of poor preventative maintenance, which is often
>caused by poor record keeping and things are left undone until they fail.
>
>R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, tX 92WB40
>
>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner wrote:
> >
> > Julie if I were in your place I would immediately contact both shops
> > for a 100% refund once you get the bill. If you have the number off
> > the old filter go to this site and plug it in with no
> > dashes. http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/index.asp then go
> > to http://www.filter1.com and get the phone number and the chances are they
> > will have one in stock.
> >
> > tom warner
> > vernon center,ny
> > 1985 PT 40
> >
> >
> > At 10:44 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote:
> > >We arrived in front of Stewart and Stevenson at 10 p.m. last night.
> > >They said they would take a preliminary look today. From our
> > >description of the problem and what work had been done they thought
> > >that the issue was on the engine side of the equation. What they
> > >found was the air filter was full. Now they are trying to locate a
> > >filter to fit. They have phoned Bluebird but did not get an answer
> > >today. He hoped for a call back tomorrow.
> > >
> > >After they put in the air filter they will test the system to see if
> > >the problem is resolved. Now it really is aggravating to have to pay
> > >3 shops to troubleshoot a problem when the first shop should have
> > >found the problem. United Engines in Oklahoma City told us that we
> > >had about 50% left on our air filter. They were wrong and
> > >consequently we had a transmission shop try to find the problem. I
> > >guess it is a good thing to have all our ground connections made
> > >secure but it was not the cause.
> > >
> > >So does Bluebird work on Friday. Does anyone know what air filter the
> > >1992 WLWB 40' PT 8V92 uses?
> > >If S & S can obtain a filter we could possibly be on our way to our
> > >winter abode.
> > >
> > > Thanks for all the advice and support. The camaraderie of these
> > >lists is truly wonderful.
> > >
> > >Julie Bonser
> > >1992 WLWB PT 40'
> > >El Paso, TX
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Julia Bonser]

I think you are partially right Ron however we have had this bird
serviced every year or 10,000 miles whichever came first. We rely on
the mechanics and technicians to inform us when there check of
systems indicate a change of filters. I think another part of the
problem is Bluebirds use of non standard parts. It is proving
difficult to find the correct filter.

Dick has been on the phone to United Engines to let them know that
they let us down. Their service manager has talked to the service
manager at S & S and we will now need to wait until after the new
filter arrives and is installed to find out if they will do anything
for us. We paid extra for them to diagnose the problem of loss of
turbo boost and they only found part of the issue.

It was implied by the service manager here that just being in a dusty
environment can be a problem. Now most campgrounds we have stayed in
have dirt/gravel roads and every passing vehicle stirs up a lot of
dust. Then there is all the dust in the desert southwest.

I feel we have put in our best effort at maintaining our Bluebird and
I'm not sure if there was more that we could have done. I have asked
the service manager if there is a maintenance schedule sheet for the
Detroit Diesel and he said he would locate one for me. Then I can be
sure to ask for the specific service such as check all the filters
and fluids when it is appropriate.

Julie Bonser
1992 WLWB PT 40'



On Dec 8, 2006, at 8:48 AM, ronmarabito2002 wrote:

> Tom:
>
> You are jumping the gun here with a call for 100% refund from
> shops. Perhaps the first one, which falsely gave the Bonsers a clear
> slate on the filter. Industrial Automatic was diagnosing a
> transmission code showing low voltage to a throttle sensor. There was
> no engine fault code. They did recommend taking it to an engine outfit
> and that ended up being Stewart & Stevenson who diagnosed the problem.
>
> It is unfortunate that all shops are not capable in dealing with
> all the problems encountered with these rigs. Most of these problems
> end up being a result of poor preventative maintenance, which is often
> caused by poor record keeping and things are left undone until they
> fail.
>
> R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, tX 92WB40
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
> wrote:
>>
>> Julie if I were in your place I would immediately contact both shops
>> for a 100% refund once you get the bill. If you have the number off
>> the old filter go to this site and plug it in with no
>> dashes. http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/index.asp then go
>> to http://www.filter1.com and get the phone number and the chances are they
>> will have one in stock.
>>
>> tom warner
>> vernon center,ny
>> 1985 PT 40
>>
>>
>> At 10:44 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote:
>>> We arrived in front of Stewart and Stevenson at 10 p.m. last night.
>>> They said they would take a preliminary look today. From our
>>> description of the problem and what work had been done they thought
>>> that the issue was on the engine side of the equation. What they
>>> found was the air filter was full. Now they are trying to locate a
>>> filter to fit. They have phoned Bluebird but did not get an answer
>>> today. He hoped for a call back tomorrow.
>>>
>>> After they put in the air filter they will test the system to see if
>>> the problem is resolved. Now it really is aggravating to have to pay
>>> 3 shops to troubleshoot a problem when the first shop should have
>>> found the problem. United Engines in Oklahoma City told us that we
>>> had about 50% left on our air filter. They were wrong and
>>> consequently we had a transmission shop try to find the problem. I
>>> guess it is a good thing to have all our ground connections made
>>> secure but it was not the cause.
>>>
>>> So does Bluebird work on Friday. Does anyone know what air filter
>>> the
>>> 1992 WLWB 40' PT 8V92 uses?
>>> If S & S can obtain a filter we could possibly be on our way to our
>>> winter abode.
>>>
>>> Thanks for all the advice and support. The camaraderie of these
>>> lists is truly wonderful.
>>>
>>> Julie Bonser
>>> 1992 WLWB PT 40'
>>> El Paso, TX
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[ac7880]

Tom,

Perhaps you are jumping the starter gun? How can they demand a 100%
refund from previous shops until the problem is actually proven to be
solved with a simple new air filter replacement?

What if they demand refunds, and the last shop's fix is not the final
solution?

Do they then refund the refund?

Let them get a fix that proves out in the long haul before pointing
fingers at previous shops and demanding money back. Maybe the 3rd
shops diagnosis is correct--or maybe not. 3 opinions thus far -
which one is right? The one that solves the problem over the next
30 days and multiple miles is likely the right one.

As for me, I would never "immediately contact both shops
for a 100% refund", until it was proven beyond a boubt they were both
wrong - and even then I would cut slack for the hours they expended
in good faith to help me solve the problem when I needed help.

Dan
94 BMC 37'



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
wrote:
>
> Julie if I were in your place I would immediately contact both
shops
> for a 100% refund once you get the bill. If you have the number off
> the old filter go to this site and plug it in with no
> dashes. http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/index.asp then go
> to http://www.filter1.com and get the phone number and the chances are
they
> will have one in stock.
>
> tom warner
> vernon center,ny
> 1985 PT 40
>
>
> At 10:44 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote:
> >We arrived in front of Stewart and Stevenson at 10 p.m. last night.
> >They said they would take a preliminary look today. From our
> >description of the problem and what work had been done they thought
> >that the issue was on the engine side of the equation. What they
> >found was the air filter was full. Now they are trying to locate a
> >filter to fit. They have phoned Bluebird but did not get an answer
> >today. He hoped for a call back tomorrow.
> >
> >After they put in the air filter they will test the system to see
if
> >the problem is resolved. Now it really is aggravating to have to
pay
> >3 shops to troubleshoot a problem when the first shop should have
> >found the problem. United Engines in Oklahoma City told us that we
> >had about 50% left on our air filter. They were wrong and
> >consequently we had a transmission shop try to find the problem. I
> >guess it is a good thing to have all our ground connections made
> >secure but it was not the cause.
> >
> >So does Bluebird work on Friday. Does anyone know what air filter
the
> >1992 WLWB 40' PT 8V92 uses?
> >If S & S can obtain a filter we could possibly be on our way to our
> >winter abode.
> >
> > Thanks for all the advice and support. The camaraderie of these
> >lists is truly wonderful.
> >
> >Julie Bonser
> >1992 WLWB PT 40'
> >El Paso, TX
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

[Doug Engel]

FWIW, Speaking as a repair shop owner, time was spent, labor was done, the
problem was not fixed. I feel that the previous shops are due something for
their time. Maybe some refund is due, maybe not, I don't know what they charged.
It sounds like the problem is not a simple one, so missed diagnosis is not hard
to understand. I feel for Julie, the frustration of being stuck, spending money
and not getting the results you expected and spending more money is no fun to
say the least, but we cannot expect these complicated machines to always be easy
to fix. More often than not, I find elusive problems to be multi-faceted, and
while the actual repair may be easy and quick, finding the problem may be
difficult and time consuming. Certianly we can't expect service facilities to
only get paid for the problems they fix, and not for the time it takes to
diagnose the problem? At least the most recent shop knows what has been tried
and didn't work, that alone is worth something.
I've been to my doctor 3 times with an aching elbow and it still aches, but
I have to keep paying for him to look at it.
I just hope they get it figured out and Julie and crew can get on with their
travels.
Doug Engel, Gunnison, CO, 1981 FC35SB, "Pokey"

ac7880 wrote:
Tom,

Perhaps you are jumping the starter gun? How can they demand a 100%
refund from previous shops until the problem is actually proven to be
solved with a simple new air filter replacement?

What if they demand refunds, and the last shop's fix is not the final
solution?

Do they then refund the refund?

Let them get a fix that proves out in the long haul before pointing
fingers at previous shops and demanding money back. Maybe the 3rd
shops diagnosis is correct--or maybe not. 3 opinions thus far -
which one is right? The one that solves the problem over the next
30 days and multiple miles is likely the right one.

As for me, I would never "immediately contact both shops
for a 100% refund", until it was proven beyond a boubt they were both
wrong - and even then I would cut slack for the hours they expended
in good faith to help me solve the problem when I needed help.

Dan
94 BMC 37'

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
wrote:
>
> Julie if I were in your place I would immediately contact both
shops
> for a 100% refund once you get the bill. If you have the number off
> the old filter go to this site and plug it in with no
> dashes. http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/index.asp then go
> to http://www.filter1.com and get the phone number and the chances are
they
> will have one in stock.
>
> tom warner
> vernon center,ny
> 1985 PT 40
>
>
> At 10:44 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote:
> >We arrived in front of Stewart and Stevenson at 10 p.m. last night.
> >They said they would take a preliminary look today. From our
> >description of the problem and what work had been done they thought
> >that the issue was on the engine side of the equation. What they
> >found was the air filter was full. Now they are trying to locate a
> >filter to fit. They have phoned Bluebird but did not get an answer
> >today. He hoped for a call back tomorrow.
> >
> >After they put in the air filter they will test the system to see
if
> >the problem is resolved. Now it really is aggravating to have to
pay
> >3 shops to troubleshoot a problem when the first shop should have
> >found the problem. United Engines in Oklahoma City told us that we
> >had about 50% left on our air filter. They were wrong and
> >consequently we had a transmission shop try to find the problem. I
> >guess it is a good thing to have all our ground connections made
> >secure but it was not the cause.
> >
> >So does Bluebird work on Friday. Does anyone know what air filter
the
> >1992 WLWB 40' PT 8V92 uses?
> >If S & S can obtain a filter we could possibly be on our way to our
> >winter abode.
> >
> > Thanks for all the advice and support. The camaraderie of these
> >lists is truly wonderful.
> >
> >Julie Bonser
> >1992 WLWB PT 40'
> >El Paso, TX
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>






Doug Engel, Gunnison, CO. 1981 FC35SB "Pokey"

---------------------------------
Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Gregory OConnor]

Dan, I'm with you and still dont believe it is the AirFilter. The
third shop baced their diagnosis on the documented tasks of the other
shops. Its kinda a "well if they ruled out A and B then lets look at
C. It is always the last thing you do that corrects the problem, why
go any farther. Ground connections are just one link that are a
reasonable place for a problem. Ground wires and straps are less
likely and harder to detect.

Tom has a point also; aim high, it don't hurt to ask, squeeky wheel,
etc. A customer once asked for a refund on my labor so I just brought
their driveway back. He still was'nt happy.

GregoryO'Connor

94ptRomolandCa

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "ac7880"
wrote:
>
> Tom,
>
> Perhaps you are jumping the starter gun? How can they demand a
100%
> refund from previous shops until the problem is actually proven to
be
> solved with a simple new air filter replacement?
>
> What if they demand refunds, and the last shop's fix is not the
final
> solution?
>
> Do they then refund the refund?
>
> Let them get a fix that proves out in the long haul before pointing
> fingers at previous shops and demanding money back. Maybe the 3rd
> shops diagnosis is correct--or maybe not. 3 opinions thus far -
> which one is right? The one that solves the problem over the
next
> 30 days and multiple miles is likely the right one.
>
> As for me, I would never "immediately contact both shops
> for a 100% refund", until it was proven beyond a boubt they were
both
> wrong - and even then I would cut slack for the hours they expended
> in good faith to help me solve the problem when I needed help.
>
> Dan
> 94 BMC 37'
>
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
> wrote:
> >
> > Julie if I were in your place I would immediately contact both
> shops
> > for a 100% refund once you get the bill. If you have the number
off
> > the old filter go to this site and plug it in with no
> > dashes. http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/index.asp then
go
> > to http://www.filter1.com and get the phone number and the chances are
> they
> > will have one in stock.
> >
> > tom warner
> > vernon center,ny
> > 1985 PT 40
> >
> >
> > At 10:44 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote:
> > >We arrived in front of Stewart and Stevenson at 10 p.m. last
night.
> > >They said they would take a preliminary look today. From our
> > >description of the problem and what work had been done they
thought
> > >that the issue was on the engine side of the equation. What they
> > >found was the air filter was full. Now they are trying to locate
a
> > >filter to fit. They have phoned Bluebird but did not get an
answer
> > >today. He hoped for a call back tomorrow.
> > >
> > >After they put in the air filter they will test the system to
see
> if
> > >the problem is resolved. Now it really is aggravating to have to
> pay
> > >3 shops to troubleshoot a problem when the first shop should have
> > >found the problem. United Engines in Oklahoma City told us that
we
> > >had about 50% left on our air filter. They were wrong and
> > >consequently we had a transmission shop try to find the problem.
I
> > >guess it is a good thing to have all our ground connections made
> > >secure but it was not the cause.
> > >
> > >So does Bluebird work on Friday. Does anyone know what air
filter
> the
> > >1992 WLWB 40' PT 8V92 uses?
> > >If S & S can obtain a filter we could possibly be on our way to
our
> > >winter abode.
> > >
> > > Thanks for all the advice and support. The camaraderie of
these
> > >lists is truly wonderful.
> > >
> > >Julie Bonser
> > >1992 WLWB PT 40'
> > >El Paso, TX
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

[Tom Warner]

Before you jump on me you might want to reread my post. I said AFTER
you get the bill At 09:33 PM 12/8/2006, you wrote:
>Tom,
>
>Perhaps you are jumping the starter gun? How can they demand a 100%
>refund from previous shops until the problem is actually proven to be
>solved with a simple new air filter replacement?
>
>What if they demand refunds, and the last shop's fix is not the final
>solution?
>
>Do they then refund the refund?
>
>Let them get a fix that proves out in the long haul before pointing
>fingers at previous shops and demanding money back. Maybe the 3rd
>shops diagnosis is correct--or maybe not. 3 opinions thus far -
>which one is right? The one that solves the problem over the next
>30 days and multiple miles is likely the right one.
>
>As for me, I would never "immediately contact both shops
>for a 100% refund", until it was proven beyond a boubt they were both
>wrong - and even then I would cut slack for the hours they expended
>in good faith to help me solve the problem when I needed help.
>
>Dan
>94 BMC 37'
>
>
>
>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
>wrote:
> >
> > Julie if I were in your place I would immediately contact both
>shops
> > for a 100% refund once you get the bill. If you have the number off
> > the old filter go to this site and plug it in with no
> > dashes. http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/index.asp then go
> > to http://www.filter1.com and get the phone number and the chances are
>they
> > will have one in stock.
> >
> > tom warner
> > vernon center,ny
> > 1985 PT 40
> >
> >
> > At 10:44 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote:
> > >We arrived in front of Stewart and Stevenson at 10 p.m. last night.
> > >They said they would take a preliminary look today. From our
> > >description of the problem and what work had been done they thought
> > >that the issue was on the engine side of the equation. What they
> > >found was the air filter was full. Now they are trying to locate a
> > >filter to fit. They have phoned Bluebird but did not get an answer
> > >today. He hoped for a call back tomorrow.
> > >
> > >After they put in the air filter they will test the system to see
>if
> > >the problem is resolved. Now it really is aggravating to have to
>pay
> > >3 shops to troubleshoot a problem when the first shop should have
> > >found the problem. United Engines in Oklahoma City told us that we
> > >had about 50% left on our air filter. They were wrong and
> > >consequently we had a transmission shop try to find the problem. I
> > >guess it is a good thing to have all our ground connections made
> > >secure but it was not the cause.
> > >
> > >So does Bluebird work on Friday. Does anyone know what air filter
>the
> > >1992 WLWB 40' PT 8V92 uses?
> > >If S & S can obtain a filter we could possibly be on our way to our
> > >winter abode.
> > >
> > > Thanks for all the advice and support. The camaraderie of these
> > >lists is truly wonderful.
> > >
> > >Julie Bonser
> > >1992 WLWB PT 40'
> > >El Paso, TX
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Tom Warner]

Before you jump on me you might want to reread my post. I said AFTER
you get the bill .

tom warner
vernon center,ny
1985 PT 40

At 09:33 PM 12/8/2006, you wrote:
>Tom,
>
>Perhaps you are jumping the starter gun? How can they demand a 100%
>refund from previous shops until the problem is actually proven to be
>solved with a simple new air filter replacement?
>
>What if they demand refunds, and the last shop's fix is not the final
>solution?
>
>Do they then refund the refund?
>
>Let them get a fix that proves out in the long haul before pointing
>fingers at previous shops and demanding money back. Maybe the 3rd
>shops diagnosis is correct--or maybe not. 3 opinions thus far -
>which one is right? The one that solves the problem over the next
>30 days and multiple miles is likely the right one.
>
>As for me, I would never "immediately contact both shops
>for a 100% refund", until it was proven beyond a boubt they were both
>wrong - and even then I would cut slack for the hours they expended
>in good faith to help me solve the problem when I needed help.
>
>Dan
>94 BMC 37'
>
>
>
>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
>wrote:
> >
> > Julie if I were in your place I would immediately contact both
>shops
> > for a 100% refund once you get the bill. If you have the number off
> > the old filter go to this site and plug it in with no
> > dashes. http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/index.asp then go
> > to http://www.filter1.com and get the phone number and the chances are
>they
> > will have one in stock.
> >
> > tom warner
> > vernon center,ny
> > 1985 PT 40
> >
> >
> > At 10:44 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote:
> > >We arrived in front of Stewart and Stevenson at 10 p.m. last night.
> > >They said they would take a preliminary look today. From our
> > >description of the problem and what work had been done they thought
> > >that the issue was on the engine side of the equation. What they
> > >found was the air filter was full. Now they are trying to locate a
> > >filter to fit. They have phoned Bluebird but did not get an answer
> > >today. He hoped for a call back tomorrow.
> > >
> > >After they put in the air filter they will test the system to see
>if
> > >the problem is resolved. Now it really is aggravating to have to
>pay
> > >3 shops to troubleshoot a problem when the first shop should have
> > >found the problem. United Engines in Oklahoma City told us that we
> > >had about 50% left on our air filter. They were wrong and
> > >consequently we had a transmission shop try to find the problem. I
> > >guess it is a good thing to have all our ground connections made
> > >secure but it was not the cause.
> > >
> > >So does Bluebird work on Friday. Does anyone know what air filter
>the
> > >1992 WLWB 40' PT 8V92 uses?
> > >If S & S can obtain a filter we could possibly be on our way to our
> > >winter abode.
> > >
> > > Thanks for all the advice and support. The camaraderie of these
> > >lists is truly wonderful.
> > >
> > >Julie Bonser
> > >1992 WLWB PT 40'
> > >El Paso, TX
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Tom Warner]

Doug sounds like we have a disagreement here and in my opinion one of
the reasons we have a few bad service areas that can get away with
poor service. And notice that I said a few. I dont understand your
rationale Doug when you say "time was spent, labor was done, the
problem was not fixed", then what are you paying them for? I am
going to pay $90-$110 an hour for expert services to NOT fix a
problem now? Dont think so.
I stick by my previous statement, if you cant do the work get out of
the business. If they advertise diesel and allison transmission
service then they should have the equipment, skills and parts to fix them.

tom warner
vernon center,ny
1985 PT 40



At 10:09 PM 12/8/2006, you wrote:
>FWIW, Speaking as a repair shop owner, time was spent, labor was
>done, the problem was not fixed. I feel that the previous shops are
>due something for their time. Maybe some refund is due, maybe not, I
>don't know what they charged. It sounds like the problem is not a
>simple one, so missed diagnosis is not hard to understand. I feel
>for Julie, the frustration of being stuck, spending money and not
>getting the results you expected and spending more money is no fun
>to say the least, but we cannot expect these complicated machines to
>always be easy to fix. More often than not, I find elusive problems
>to be multi-faceted, and while the actual repair may be easy and
>quick, finding the problem may be difficult and time consuming.
>Certianly we can't expect service facilities to only get paid for
>the problems they fix, and not for the time it takes to diagnose the
>problem? At least the most recent shop knows what has been tried and
>didn't work, that alone is worth something.
> I've been to my doctor 3 times with an aching elbow and it
> still aches, but I have to keep paying for him to look at it.
> I just hope they get it figured out and Julie and crew can get
> on with their travels.
> Doug Engel, Gunnison, CO, 1981 FC35SB, "Pokey"
>
>ac7880 wrote:
> Tom,
>
>Perhaps you are jumping the starter gun? How can they demand a 100%
>refund from previous shops until the problem is actually proven to be
>solved with a simple new air filter replacement?
>
>What if they demand refunds, and the last shop's fix is not the final
>solution?
>
>Do they then refund the refund?
>
>Let them get a fix that proves out in the long haul before pointing
>fingers at previous shops and demanding money back. Maybe the 3rd
>shops diagnosis is correct--or maybe not. 3 opinions thus far -
>which one is right? The one that solves the problem over the next
>30 days and multiple miles is likely the right one.
>
>As for me, I would never "immediately contact both shops
>for a 100% refund", until it was proven beyond a boubt they were both
>wrong - and even then I would cut slack for the hours they expended
>in good faith to help me solve the problem when I needed help.
>
>Dan
>94 BMC 37'
>
>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
>wrote:
> >
> > Julie if I were in your place I would immediately contact both
>shops
> > for a 100% refund once you get the bill. If you have the number off
> > the old filter go to this site and plug it in with no
> > dashes. http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/index.asp then go
> > to http://www.filter1.com and get the phone number and the chances are
>they
> > will have one in stock.
> >
> > tom warner
> > vernon center,ny
> > 1985 PT 40
> >
> >
> > At 10:44 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote:
> > >We arrived in front of Stewart and Stevenson at 10 p.m. last night.
> > >They said they would take a preliminary look today. From our
> > >description of the problem and what work had been done they thought
> > >that the issue was on the engine side of the equation. What they
> > >found was the air filter was full. Now they are trying to locate a
> > >filter to fit. They have phoned Bluebird but did not get an answer
> > >today. He hoped for a call back tomorrow.
> > >
> > >After they put in the air filter they will test the system to see
>if
> > >the problem is resolved. Now it really is aggravating to have to
>pay
> > >3 shops to troubleshoot a problem when the first shop should have
> > >found the problem. United Engines in Oklahoma City told us that we
> > >had about 50% left on our air filter. They were wrong and
> > >consequently we had a transmission shop try to find the problem. I
> > >guess it is a good thing to have all our ground connections made
> > >secure but it was not the cause.
> > >
> > >So does Bluebird work on Friday. Does anyone know what air filter
>the
> > >1992 WLWB 40' PT 8V92 uses?
> > >If S & S can obtain a filter we could possibly be on our way to our
> > >winter abode.
> > >
> > > Thanks for all the advice and support. The camaraderie of these
> > >lists is truly wonderful.
> > >
> > >Julie Bonser
> > >1992 WLWB PT 40'
> > >El Paso, TX
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Doug Engel, Gunnison, CO. 1981 FC35SB "Pokey"
>
>---------------------------------
>Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited.
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[ronmarabito2002]

Unfortunately Julie, 10,000 miles is too many for several items.
There should be a maintenance schedule in your Blue Box. I have
modified some of my intervals because the recommendations are not to
my liking. I also know that some of the service people don't always
check this stuff like they should. I keep good records of all my
service and check a lot of this stuff myself. I tell the service
people what to do and when to do it. I do understand your plight and I
too have been given bad information by some shops. It's kind of like
your own health issues. No one looks out for you like you.

R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, tX 92WB40


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Julia Bonser wrote:
>
> I think you are partially right Ron however we have had this bird
> serviced every year or 10,000 miles whichever came first. We rely on
> the mechanics and technicians to inform us when there check of
> systems indicate a change of filters. I think another part of the
> problem is Bluebirds use of non standard parts. It is proving
> difficult to find the correct filter.
>
> Dick has been on the phone to United Engines to let them know that
> they let us down. Their service manager has talked to the service
> manager at S & S and we will now need to wait until after the new
> filter arrives and is installed to find out if they will do anything
> for us. We paid extra for them to diagnose the problem of loss of
> turbo boost and they only found part of the issue.
>
> It was implied by the service manager here that just being in a dusty
> environment can be a problem. Now most campgrounds we have stayed in
> have dirt/gravel roads and every passing vehicle stirs up a lot of
> dust. Then there is all the dust in the desert southwest.
>
> I feel we have put in our best effort at maintaining our Bluebird and
> I'm not sure if there was more that we could have done. I have asked
> the service manager if there is a maintenance schedule sheet for the
> Detroit Diesel and he said he would locate one for me. Then I can be
> sure to ask for the specific service such as check all the filters
> and fluids when it is appropriate.
>
> Julie Bonser
> 1992 WLWB PT 40'
>
>
>
> On Dec 8, 2006, at 8:48 AM, ronmarabito2002 wrote:
>
> > Tom:
> >
> > You are jumping the gun here with a call for 100% refund from
> > shops. Perhaps the first one, which falsely gave the Bonsers a clear
> > slate on the filter. Industrial Automatic was diagnosing a
> > transmission code showing low voltage to a throttle sensor. There was
> > no engine fault code. They did recommend taking it to an engine outfit
> > and that ended up being Stewart & Stevenson who diagnosed the problem.
> >
> > It is unfortunate that all shops are not capable in dealing with
> > all the problems encountered with these rigs. Most of these problems
> > end up being a result of poor preventative maintenance, which is often
> > caused by poor record keeping and things are left undone until they
> > fail.
> >
> > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, tX 92WB40
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Julie if I were in your place I would immediately contact both shops
> >> for a 100% refund once you get the bill. If you have the number off
> >> the old filter go to this site and plug it in with no
> >> dashes. http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/index.asp then go
> >> to http://www.filter1.com and get the phone number and the chances are they
> >> will have one in stock.
> >>
> >> tom warner
> >> vernon center,ny
> >> 1985 PT 40
> >>
> >>
> >> At 10:44 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote:
> >>> We arrived in front of Stewart and Stevenson at 10 p.m. last night.
> >>> They said they would take a preliminary look today. From our
> >>> description of the problem and what work had been done they thought
> >>> that the issue was on the engine side of the equation. What they
> >>> found was the air filter was full. Now they are trying to locate a
> >>> filter to fit. They have phoned Bluebird but did not get an answer
> >>> today. He hoped for a call back tomorrow.
> >>>
> >>> After they put in the air filter they will test the system to see if
> >>> the problem is resolved. Now it really is aggravating to have to pay
> >>> 3 shops to troubleshoot a problem when the first shop should have
> >>> found the problem. United Engines in Oklahoma City told us that we
> >>> had about 50% left on our air filter. They were wrong and
> >>> consequently we had a transmission shop try to find the problem. I
> >>> guess it is a good thing to have all our ground connections made
> >>> secure but it was not the cause.
> >>>
> >>> So does Bluebird work on Friday. Does anyone know what air filter
> >>> the
> >>> 1992 WLWB 40' PT 8V92 uses?
> >>> If S & S can obtain a filter we could possibly be on our way to our
> >>> winter abode.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for all the advice and support. The camaraderie of these
> >>> lists is truly wonderful.
> >>>
> >>> Julie Bonser
> >>> 1992 WLWB PT 40'
> >>> El Paso, TX
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

[Doug Engel]

Tom,
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I agree that if someone presents
themselves as an expert, then they should be able to fix a problem. If they
can't then perhaps they should revise their description of the service they
offer. However, repair these days (and possibly has been forever) is
unfortunately often not an exact science, especially with computers. How can we
not expect to pay a service facility for their time if a problem continues to be
elusive?
I struggle with these same issues at my shop. If a problem is puzzling, I
tell the customer. If I only "think" I have the problem solved, I tell the
customer to drive the car and get back to me, if it's fixed, we'll settle up, if
not, I'll try some more or try to find someone who can fix it. I personally get
very frustrated when I can't fix a problem, not only for myself, but more so for
my customer. Beleive me, I eat my share of parts and labor because my conscience
won't allow me to charge for a missed diagnosis.
My statments are made with the assumption that the shops honestly "thought"
they had fixed the peoblem...maybe if they had another chance to work on the rig
they could have, but Julie had to be on her way, a difficult situation for both
vehicle owner and repair facility.
So enough of this for me, back to the real issue. I too am very skeptical
about this whole thing being caused by a bad air filter. Maybe...but doubtful to
me. I think when it gets fixed, we will find there were other players. Just this
week I had an Audi with a engine cut out situation that seemed like a fuel pump
issue, but it turned out to be a cracked vaccum line going to the turbo waste
gate. This caused the turbo to go into overboost and the computer ws shutting
off the fuel pump. No computer fault codes were present. It can be a real
challenge...

Tom Warner wrote:
Doug sounds like we have a disagreement here and in my opinion one of
the reasons we have a few bad service areas that can get away with
poor service. And notice that I said a few. I dont understand your
rationale Doug when you say "time was spent, labor was done, the
problem was not fixed", then what are you paying them for? I am
going to pay $90-$110 an hour for expert services to NOT fix a
problem now? Dont think so.
I stick by my previous statement, if you cant do the work get out of
the business. If they advertise diesel and allison transmission
service then they should have the equipment, skills and parts to fix them.

tom warner
vernon center,ny
1985 PT 40

At 10:09 PM 12/8/2006, you wrote:
>FWIW, Speaking as a repair shop owner, time was spent, labor was
>done, the problem was not fixed. I feel that the previous shops are
>due something for their time. Maybe some refund is due, maybe not, I
>don't know what they charged. It sounds like the problem is not a
>simple one, so missed diagnosis is not hard to understand. I feel
>for Julie, the frustration of being stuck, spending money and not
>getting the results you expected and spending more money is no fun
>to say the least, but we cannot expect these complicated machines to
>always be easy to fix. More often than not, I find elusive problems
>to be multi-faceted, and while the actual repair may be easy and
>quick, finding the problem may be difficult and time consuming.
>Certianly we can't expect service facilities to only get paid for
>the problems they fix, and not for the time it takes to diagnose the
>problem? At least the most recent shop knows what has been tried and
>didn't work, that alone is worth something.
> I've been to my doctor 3 times with an aching elbow and it
> still aches, but I have to keep paying for him to look at it.
> I just hope they get it figured out and Julie and crew can get
> on with their travels.
> Doug Engel, Gunnison, CO, 1981 FC35SB, "Pokey"
>
>ac7880 wrote:
> Tom,
>
>Perhaps you are jumping the starter gun? How can they demand a 100%
>refund from previous shops until the problem is actually proven to be
>solved with a simple new air filter replacement?
>
>What if they demand refunds, and the last shop's fix is not the final
>solution?
>
>Do they then refund the refund?
>
>Let them get a fix that proves out in the long haul before pointing
>fingers at previous shops and demanding money back. Maybe the 3rd
>shops diagnosis is correct--or maybe not. 3 opinions thus far -
>which one is right? The one that solves the problem over the next
>30 days and multiple miles is likely the right one.
>
>As for me, I would never "immediately contact both shops
>for a 100% refund", until it was proven beyond a boubt they were both
>wrong - and even then I would cut slack for the hours they expended
>in good faith to help me solve the problem when I needed help.
>
>Dan
>94 BMC 37'
>
>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
>wrote:
> >
> > Julie if I were in your place I would immediately contact both
>shops
> > for a 100% refund once you get the bill. If you have the number off
> > the old filter go to this site and plug it in with no
> > dashes. http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/index.asp then go
> > to http://www.filter1.com and get the phone number and the chances are
>they
> > will have one in stock.
> >
> > tom warner
> > vernon center,ny
> > 1985 PT 40
> >
> >
> > At 10:44 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote:
> > >We arrived in front of Stewart and Stevenson at 10 p.m. last night.
> > >They said they would take a preliminary look today. From our
> > >description of the problem and what work had been done they thought
> > >that the issue was on the engine side of the equation. What they
> > >found was the air filter was full. Now they are trying to locate a
> > >filter to fit. They have phoned Bluebird but did not get an answer
> > >today. He hoped for a call back tomorrow.
> > >
> > >After they put in the air filter they will test the system to see
>if
> > >the problem is resolved. Now it really is aggravating to have to
>pay
> > >3 shops to troubleshoot a problem when the first shop should have
> > >found the problem. United Engines in Oklahoma City told us that we
> > >had about 50% left on our air filter. They were wrong and
> > >consequently we had a transmission shop try to find the problem. I
> > >guess it is a good thing to have all our ground connections made
> > >secure but it was not the cause.
> > >
> > >So does Bluebird work on Friday. Does anyone know what air filter
>the
> > >1992 WLWB 40' PT 8V92 uses?
> > >If S & S can obtain a filter we could possibly be on our way to our
> > >winter abode.
> > >
> > > Thanks for all the advice and support. The camaraderie of these
> > >lists is truly wonderful.
> > >
> > >Julie Bonser
> > >1992 WLWB PT 40'
> > >El Paso, TX
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Doug Engel, Gunnison, CO. 1981 FC35SB "Pokey"
>
>---------------------------------
>Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited.
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>






Doug Engel, Gunnison, CO. 1981 FC35SB "Pokey"

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