Transporting a new purchase

[bubblerboy64]

Ryan, If you buy a car from a dealer in Pa. the dealer has the
plates and the car is duly registered in your name before you drive
off. Taxes paid and the deal is done. They either transfer your
existing plate off the trade or you buy a new one. And trust me they
call the insurance agent to see that there is a binder in place as
well. I've done this more often then I should have so trust me I know
how to buy cars in Pa. I have bought cars out of state and I
trailered them into Pa. Never sold one to any one out of state so I
have not crossed that bridge. Don't know how I would handle that I
guess I would ask the Pa DMV what is legal. My point is only that
each state is different and I would bet you dimes to donuts that Pa
is not going to allow a guy to legally take the car driving on my
tag, bill of sale or not. If you are really interested I'll call
tomorrow and ask how they would handle that one. Want to bet that
the fellow either has to have a temporary tag from his state (which
really grinds my gears since Pa no longer issues them) or it would
have to be transported on a dealer tag or trailered? Just for fun I
will call.
John Heckman
central Pa
1973 FC
>
> On Dec 6, 2007 4:17 PM, bubblerboy64 wrote:
> >
> > If you happened to be involved in an accident or a traffic
violation
> > and you are pulled over what do they ask for? Your license, your
> > insurance, and your registration. Anyone argue with that? Think a
> > bill of sale is good enough?
>
> Yes, actually, a bill of sale is good enough. Haven't you bought a
car
> from a dealership before? You never leave with a registration, at
> least not in the states I've bought vehicles in. You pay the fees
and
> the registration is mailed to you in a couple of weeks. In the
> meantime you are driving a car that hasn't yet been registered. This
> is allowed because you just bought it and most states - I'll bet
every
> state - has a grace period for vehicle purchases.
>
> So, yes, you show them a recent bill of sale and that's good enough,
> you're on your way.
>
> > I would not sell a car and let a fellow
> > drive it on my registration and I would not ask to do so in
return.
>
> Then how do you ever expect to sell a car? No, you don't give your
> registration paperwork to the guy, but he is technically driving "on
> your registration" as far as the state is concerned until he
registers
> it in his name. Every time you sell a car, do you take the person
down
> to the local DMV and make them transfer it into their name? Would
make
> it awfully hard to sell a car to someone from out of state.
>
> I've sold cars to people from out of state many times. You simply
sign
> the title over and send them on their way. You then fill out a
little
> form at the bottom of the title and mail that to the state - that
> certifies you sold the vehicle to so-and-so on such-and-such date.
> That form is your waiver of liability - if the guy does something
> stupid, he is on the hook even if the registration is still
> technically in your name. Sure, the cops might come by your door but
> you simply say, "I sold it to this guy and mailed the form off
> yesterday." Case closed.
>
> > I don't loan cars to people either but that is essentially what
you
> > are doing legally until the registration is changed over or at
least
> > it could be interpreted that way in the you guess it a "court of
> > law".
>
> No, that's an incorrect statement. You aren't loaning the car to
> anyone. You've signed the title over to them. The car is therefore
> sold. The registration has absolutely nothing to do with ownership.
>
> Once you report to the state that the car has been sold they cancel
> the registration.
>
> This is not rocket science, folks. People have been buying and
selling
> cars for a really long time now. The authorities have it all figured
> out; you don't have to transfer title or registration the second the
> car trades hands. That is what titles and purchase agreements are
for.
> Yes, these can replace the registration for a short period of time
> while you get the car home.
>
> Think about it: If things really worked as poorly as you seem to
think
> they do, nobody could ever buy a car on a weekend or holiday or
after
> 5pm because the local DMV office is closed. Yet people buy cars when
> the DMV is closed ALL THE TIME. In fact I would venture a guess the
> vast majority of cars are sold during evenings and weekends, after
DMV
> hours, and you know what? People get along just fine because it's
not
> illegal anywhere in this country to drive your newly purchased car
> around for a few days until you can get down to the local DMV office
> and get your registration in order.
>
> > I checked with my local DMV in
> > Pa and they told me that as far as Pa was concerned if you did
not
> > have a dealers tag you better have the vehicle trailered.
>
> You talked to some idiot at the DMV office. That does not mean what
he
> said was the law. Call your local police department instead. Tell
them
> you're buying a car from some guy on the other side of the state and
> you need to drive it home but you're picking it up on Saturday and
> won't be able to register it until the DMV opens on Monday. Ask them
> if that's OK. Then you'll have your answer.
>
> > And as far as a binder not being necessary because the insurance
> > company gives you 30 days. I don't trust that one either. I can't
> > repeat "insurance companies are our friends" over and over enough
> > that I want to take any chances with them. So I get the binder in
> > writing which of course you have to have to get that temporary
tag.
>
> You're making this way more difficult than it has to be. My freshly
> signed title has always sufficed in place of a registration and
> insurance cards for my other vehicles have always sufficed in place
of
> an insurance card on the new vehicle I just purchased. Just give the
> cop the "sir yes sir" he wants to hear and you'll be on your merry
> way.
>
> -Ryan
>

[Don Bradner]

There is no procedure that you can follow that protects you from hassle, because
of the slowness of the DMV to update records. Someone else mentioned getting
something signed by the recipient to show they were taking possession, and
that's a good idea. Won't stop hassle, but should make liability less or none.

In 1985 I traded in a Ford Econoline on another vehicle. Mailed in the form, but
that did not matter; the dealer flipped it in one day, and the next day it was
involved in a hit-and-run (it was the offending vehicle) some 80 miles away. We
dealt with visits from the local police, highway patrol, and investigators for
the insurance company of the victim, plus calls from the victim, for about a
week afterwards. All were satisfied after seeing the dealer documents I had, and
then talking to the dealer, but all approached us initially as perps.

I don't know how long it was before the DMV records reflected the change of
ownership, but definitely a few days wasn't enough. They probably hadn't even
gotten it in the mail yet when the accident happened.

Point is, documents can cover your liability, but nothing removes the potential
for hassle.

On 12/7/2007 at 11:17 AM Pete Masterson wrote:

>Gregory,
>
>I can understand your concerns -- over the years, I've sold many
>automobiles privately as the trade-in values (to dealers) were
>generally unacceptable to me. Since I tend to drive cars until the
>wheels are ready to fall off, these sales were not always to
>(potentially) reliable people. (Cash (as currency) only payment
>accepted.)
>
>I have always promptly mailed the release forms to the DMV -- and
>I've never had anyone come back to me for unpaid parking tickets or
>other liabilities. So, apparently, the forms have worked for me.
>
>I suppose, if you're uncomfortable with mailing the form in, you
>could take it in to a DMV office and request that they sign (another
>copy) as a delivery receipt -- or give you some other official
>acknowledgment that you've turned in a release form. (Although
>waiting around a DMV office is far from appealing.)
>
>Pete Masterson
>'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
>aeonix1@...
>On the road at Golden Colorado where we're having "light" snowfall
>today.
>
>
>
>On Dec 7, 2007, at 10:35 AM, Gregory OConnor wrote:
>
>> Pete the unsetteling thing with that form is you have no proof of
>> sending it. I now send them certified with a proof of process
>> statement signed by a disinterested 3rd party. I keep a copy and
>> photo copy of buyers driver license. Since your only obligation for
>> release of liability is to send it, I send 'certified only' and save
>> the reciept for that proof. I do not send it 'return reciept
>> requested' because I dont want to add the obligation that the mail
>> reaches the DMV.
>>
>> Tim gave a car away several years back and it was impounded and
>> towed. we got notice that I was the last registered owner and just
>> let it go. The car was sold at auction for $500.00 and I was held
>> responsible for the balance of the Tow and storage. I never sent the
>> form in so I couldn't proclaim I did . my word has more value then
>> the $1,300 somthing balance. If the charge passed the $2,000.00
>> threshold, that value would have put me in court making
>> proclimations but still no proof of sending the form.

[bubblerboy64]

Ok, I contacted the local messenger service and here is the deal.
I WAS WRONG ABOUT THE TEMPORARY PLATES Pa does issue them. A person
buying a vehicle registered in Pa and transporting to another state
buys a temporary transit plate from Pa and is legal. If you are a
Pa resident and buying a vehicle out of state and transporting it
INTO Pa then it is up to the state in which the vehicle is
registered to issue the temporary plate. I think where I got
confused is that I asked to get a temporary Pa plate to take to
Michigan to bring the bus back. I was told that Pa did not issue
temporary plates. Which was true and not true. They do but not to
go the direction I was going. Michigan issued me the transit plate
not Pa. My point however that you DO NOT drive on some one elses
plate is accurate according to the individual I spoke to this
morning. It's your vehicle, you paid for it, its your insurance and
it should be your registration (temporary as it is). That is the the
letter of the law in Pa. Would you be in trouble if you didn't have
all the paper work right? Who knows! I would suggest its pretty
easy to do it correctly so why would you not?

John Heckman
central Pa
1973 FC







>
> There is no procedure that you can follow that protects you from
hassle, because of the slowness of the DMV to update records.
Someone else mentioned getting something signed by the recipient to
show they were taking possession, and that's a good idea. Won't stop
hassle, but should make liability less or none.
>
> In 1985 I traded in a Ford Econoline on another vehicle. Mailed in
the form, but that did not matter; the dealer flipped it in one day,
and the next day it was involved in a hit-and-run (it was the
offending vehicle) some 80 miles away. We dealt with visits from the
local police, highway patrol, and investigators for the insurance
company of the victim, plus calls from the victim, for about a week
afterwards. All were satisfied after seeing the dealer documents I
had, and then talking to the dealer, but all approached us initially
as perps.
>
> I don't know how long it was before the DMV records reflected the
change of ownership, but definitely a few days wasn't enough. They
probably hadn't even gotten it in the mail yet when the accident
happened.
>
> Point is, documents can cover your liability, but nothing removes
the potential for hassle.
>
> On 12/7/2007 at 11:17 AM Pete Masterson wrote:
>
> >Gregory,
> >
> >I can understand your concerns -- over the years, I've sold many
> >automobiles privately as the trade-in values (to dealers) were
> >generally unacceptable to me. Since I tend to drive cars until
the
> >wheels are ready to fall off, these sales were not always to
> >(potentially) reliable people. (Cash (as currency) only payment
> >accepted.)
> >
> >I have always promptly mailed the release forms to the DMV --
and
> >I've never had anyone come back to me for unpaid parking tickets
or
> >other liabilities. So, apparently, the forms have worked for me.
> >
> >I suppose, if you're uncomfortable with mailing the form in, you
> >could take it in to a DMV office and request that they sign
(another
> >copy) as a delivery receipt -- or give you some other official
> >acknowledgment that you've turned in a release form. (Although
> >waiting around a DMV office is far from appealing.)
> >
> >Pete Masterson
> >'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
> >aeonix1@...
> >On the road at Golden Colorado where we're having "light"
snowfall
> >today.
> >
> >
> >
> >On Dec 7, 2007, at 10:35 AM, Gregory OConnor wrote:
> >
> >> Pete the unsetteling thing with that form is you have no proof
of
> >> sending it. I now send them certified with a proof of process
> >> statement signed by a disinterested 3rd party. I keep a copy and
> >> photo copy of buyers driver license. Since your only obligation
for
> >> release of liability is to send it, I send 'certified only' and
save
> >> the reciept for that proof. I do not send it 'return reciept
> >> requested' because I dont want to add the obligation that the
mail
> >> reaches the DMV.
> >>
> >> Tim gave a car away several years back and it was impounded and
> >> towed. we got notice that I was the last registered owner and
just
> >> let it go. The car was sold at auction for $500.00 and I was
held
> >> responsible for the balance of the Tow and storage. I never
sent the
> >> form in so I couldn't proclaim I did . my word has more value
then
> >> the $1,300 somthing balance. If the charge passed the $2,000.00
> >> threshold, that value would have put me in court making
> >> proclimations but still no proof of sending the form.
>

[Gardner Yeaw]

John,
Thanks of the clarification. You now know more that 90% of the DMV
agents out there.
P.S. The Texas DMV never responded as promised.

Gardner
78FC33 (for now)


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bubblerboy64"
wrote:
>
> Ok, I contacted the local messenger service and here is the
deal.
> I WAS WRONG ABOUT THE TEMPORARY PLATES Pa does issue them. A
person
> buying a vehicle registered in Pa and transporting to another
state
> buys a temporary transit plate from Pa and is legal. If you are a
> Pa resident and buying a vehicle out of state and transporting it
> INTO Pa then it is up to the state in which the vehicle is
> registered to issue the temporary plate. I think where I got
> confused is that I asked to get a temporary Pa plate to take to
> Michigan to bring the bus back. I was told that Pa did not issue
> temporary plates. Which was true and not true. They do but not
to
> go the direction I was going. Michigan issued me the transit
plate
> not Pa. My point however that you DO NOT drive on some one elses
> plate is accurate according to the individual I spoke to this
> morning. It's your vehicle, you paid for it, its your insurance
and
> it should be your registration (temporary as it is). That is the
the
> letter of the law in Pa. Would you be in trouble if you didn't
have
> all the paper work right? Who knows! I would suggest its pretty
> easy to do it correctly so why would you not?
>
> John Heckman
> central Pa
> 1973 FC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> > There is no procedure that you can follow that protects you from
> hassle, because of the slowness of the DMV to update records.
> Someone else mentioned getting something signed by the recipient
to
> show they were taking possession, and that's a good idea. Won't
stop
> hassle, but should make liability less or none.
> >
> > In 1985 I traded in a Ford Econoline on another vehicle. Mailed
in
> the form, but that did not matter; the dealer flipped it in one
day,
> and the next day it was involved in a hit-and-run (it was the
> offending vehicle) some 80 miles away. We dealt with visits from
the
> local police, highway patrol, and investigators for the insurance
> company of the victim, plus calls from the victim, for about a
week
> afterwards. All were satisfied after seeing the dealer documents I
> had, and then talking to the dealer, but all approached us
initially
> as perps.
> >
> > I don't know how long it was before the DMV records reflected
the
> change of ownership, but definitely a few days wasn't enough. They
> probably hadn't even gotten it in the mail yet when the accident
> happened.
> >
> > Point is, documents can cover your liability, but nothing
removes
> the potential for hassle.
> >
> > On 12/7/2007 at 11:17 AM Pete Masterson wrote:
> >
> > >Gregory,
> > >
> > >I can understand your concerns -- over the years, I've sold
many
> > >automobiles privately as the trade-in values (to dealers) were
> > >generally unacceptable to me. Since I tend to drive cars until
> the
> > >wheels are ready to fall off, these sales were not always to
> > >(potentially) reliable people. (Cash (as currency) only
payment
> > >accepted.)
> > >
> > >I have always promptly mailed the release forms to the DMV --
> and
> > >I've never had anyone come back to me for unpaid parking
tickets
> or
> > >other liabilities. So, apparently, the forms have worked for me.
> > >
> > >I suppose, if you're uncomfortable with mailing the form in,
you
> > >could take it in to a DMV office and request that they sign
> (another
> > >copy) as a delivery receipt -- or give you some other official
> > >acknowledgment that you've turned in a release form. (Although
> > >waiting around a DMV office is far from appealing.)
> > >
> > >Pete Masterson
> > >'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
> > >aeonix1@
> > >On the road at Golden Colorado where we're having "light"
> snowfall
> > >today.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >On Dec 7, 2007, at 10:35 AM, Gregory OConnor wrote:
> > >
> > >> Pete the unsetteling thing with that form is you have no
proof
> of
> > >> sending it. I now send them certified with a proof of process
> > >> statement signed by a disinterested 3rd party. I keep a copy
and
> > >> photo copy of buyers driver license. Since your only
obligation
> for
> > >> release of liability is to send it, I send 'certified only'
and
> save
> > >> the reciept for that proof. I do not send it 'return reciept
> > >> requested' because I dont want to add the obligation that the
> mail
> > >> reaches the DMV.
> > >>
> > >> Tim gave a car away several years back and it was impounded
and
> > >> towed. we got notice that I was the last registered owner and
> just
> > >> let it go. The car was sold at auction for $500.00 and I was
> held
> > >> responsible for the balance of the Tow and storage. I never
> sent the
> > >> form in so I couldn't proclaim I did . my word has more value
> then
> > >> the $1,300 somthing balance. If the charge passed the
$2,000.00
> > >> threshold, that value would have put me in court making
> > >> proclimations but still no proof of sending the form.
> >
>