Should we even be looking at Old Birds?

[Jack & Donna Smith]

Old Bird or Newer?? Well, as some say, "You Pays Your Money, and
Takes Your Choice"...
Our 1973 Bird lacks some of the items that are standard on Newer
coaches, but also lack some of the headaches..What is a "Sporlian
Valve", anyway, or "Air Operated Sreps"?
As my old pappy said, "What ain't there, cant break".
Some costs are less, such as my yearly DMV fee of $67,(even here in
the Land of Arnold), and lower Insurance costs, and it afforded me
my unique method of financing, One Payment & walk away with the Pink
Slip..
But make no mistake, repairs may be necessary, and as Jeff Miller
said, "Pay Now, oor Pay Later".
The old coaches are much simpler and therefore easier (read Cheaper)
to maintain.
The great thing about Bluebirds is that they practically never wear
out. A lot of the original items on our coach are still working,
while I imagine my old "Sticks & Staples Tioga is probably in that
Big KOA in the Sky...
We also like to visit the various RV dealers and look over the
current crop.. It is real interesting to see the look on the
salesmans face when he asks us if we have an RV and we reply, "Yes,
a Bluebird". We are usually left alone after that......
Jack Smith
1973FC31
SoCal


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <mike.putz@...>
wrote:
>
> I also agree with everything I've read here. I own a 63 Bluebird
> conversion and just recently purchased a 78FC35. I choose this
bus
> to upgrade to a diesel, leveling jacks, bigger generator, etc.. I
> did not want air bags as I like to go off road often with a
trailer
> full of quads and dirt bikes. I wanted something tough with
ground
> clearance. I had the pleasure of driving my friends 90SP36 from
> Texas to Arizona not long ago. It was very nice, plush, fancy,
and
> strong with the 300 HP Cat. However, it was just not for me. So
old
> or new.. you can't go wrong with these busses. I'm a "bang-for-
buck"
> kind of guy on a small budget so the FC's were perfect!
> Just another 2 cents...
>
> Michael
> 78FC35 "Putz'n Around"
> Mesa, Az
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bubblerboy64"
> wrote:
> >
> > Leroy, I think everything that has been said is on target. You
> > certainly want the best that you can buy. No doubt the later
FC's
> > are considerably improved and being newer should in theory at
least
> > be in better condition. That being said there is always the
debate
> as
> > to how much a guy should spend on an FC before he considers a
PT. I
> > have never ridden in or experienced a late model FC but my
thoughts
> > are if I was going to spend upwards of 50K would I add to it a
> little
> > (or a lot) and go with a PT. These are things you have to
decide.
> I
> > was there a year ago and I am certain all of us would agree that
> you
> > should invest in some travel and time to investigate a number of
> > these coaches before you buy. I think personal preference and
how
> > you are going to use the coach are the critical things to
> consider.
> > I love my old 1973 but if I was intending to make a lot of long
> runs
> > I would consider moving up. My coach is also smallish for more
then
> > two. I consider it like buying any vehicle you want to match it
to
> > your use as well as your pocket book.
> > John Heckman
> > central Pa
> > 1973 FC
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "michaelhohnstein"
> > > <MHOHNSTEIN@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "campingleroy"
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I have experience with quite a few mid 80s Birds, buying
> selling
> > > > and "fixing on." My 83 rear bath suits the wife and I real
> well
> > > and
> > > > I wouldn't trade it for a triple slide anything. Not even a
> > Newell.
> > > > That being said, I recommend 87 and newer FCs for those who
> wish
> > to
> > > > get into a vintage Bird. The engine and accessories are much
> > easier
> > > > to maintain due to improved design engine cover and swing
> > radiator.
> > > > 86 and older are a pain to adjust valves on, and that's not
> good.
> > > > Moreover the 87 up has a charge air cooler and 300 hp., a
very
> > > > welcome feature when trying to get down the road. The ZF
trans
> > is
> > > a
> > > > great piece and features OD.
> > > > My 83 has been upgraded to 87 specs. Fiberglass engine
cover,
> > > > charge air cooler and inlet air enhancements. The Allison
is
> > > backed
> > > > by a drive line OD transmission in front of the Jake
retarder.
> > > > I was able to do all this 'stuff' to my Bird due the line of
> work
> > > > I'm in. Much easier to just pay a little more and get the
> newer
> > > > version, and it's all done for you.
> > > > MH
> > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > My wife and I really like a lot of things about vintage
> birds,
> > > > > including the safety, reliability, and durability. I
think a
> > mid
> > > > 80s
> > > > > FC would be about the best fit for us and our budget. The
> one
> > > > with a
> > > > > double bed in the back, and 2 couches up front.
> > > > >
> > > > > I dont mind tinkering and working on a lot of projects.
Our
> > > > current
> > > > > coach is a 1989 Class C, I had to rebuild the entire cab
over
> > on
> > > > that.
> > > > > But I'm by no means a mechanic. I do consider myself to
be
> > very
> > > > > mechanically inclined though. I can follow directions
really
> > > > well, if
> > > > > there are procedures on doing projects though. And based
on
> > what
> > > > I
> > > > > know or believe things to cost, I can't afford to have a
> > mechanic
> > > > do
> > > > > every bit of maintenance these things need. The
electrical
> > > > problems
> > > > > concern me much less than mechanical ones.
> > > > >
> > > > > My question is, should I steer away from these old birds?
Is
> > the
> > > > > majority of the work something that an average person
could
> do
> > > > given
> > > > > patience and research/reading? Don't want to get myself
in
> > over
> > > > my
> > > > > head.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would DEFINATELY want to hire someone to look at a unit
> > before
> > > > > purchasing, to make sure I understood what I was getting
> myself
> > > > into.
> > > > > If I get to that point, I'll be asking here for
> recommendations
> > > on
> > > > who.
> > >
> > >
> > > I would just say this and that is buy from a person who loves
his
> > old
> > > coach! Pay a little bit more but then most of the work has
been
> > done.
> > > As far as Vlv adjustment that only happens every 50,000 miles
and
> > my
> > > coach has only had that done two times. Yep and beside my old
> coach
> > > gets 10 mpg (1978) and the newer ones well we all know they
were
> > made
> > > for cheap fuel prices in mind. Jon
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[campingleroy]

Wow tons of great feedback and fast! This forum definately seems
very helpful, and really helps me feel more comfortable about making
a step toward an older coach, and knowing i have a team to help me
figure things out.

I think that I'd be better at actually doing the repairs/maintenance
than troubleshooting problems at least on the mechancial stuff, until
I got to know things a bit more.

A bit more background on us. We're late 20s, early 30s, with 2 girls
under 3 years old. We currently travel about 1 big trip a year and 2-
4 more smaller weekend trips. We expect that will increase again as
the girls get older (read out of diapers and crib).

I work in IT with computers for a living, and have done nearly every
type of work around the house and my RV, with only limited mechanical
work.

I think we'd like an 83 or 84 FC based on all i read. They have the
power of the Turbo, and also air suspension, but still aren't too
pricey. We want the diesel engine and the diesel generator. We want
the one with twin couches up front, and a double bed in the back.

I dont have an exact budget at the moment. Obviously the less I
could spend the better, but I want the most reliable coach I can get
too. I would like to spend near $20K.

Thanks for all the great feedback. I had heard a lot of good stuff
about this place from the RV.NET group, and it definately seems like
you've got a great group.


We actually went and checked out an 83 this weekend. Floor plan was
cool, perfect. But it left me with a lot of questions. Here's an
excerpt from what I wrote on RV.NEt about it.

"Late last night I found a deal on an old 1983 Wanderlodge an hour or
so south of me. We've been thinking for a few years that it would be
very nice to have an old Bird. This deal seemed too good to be true,
$12,000. I'd never personally been inside a vintage bird, so i
figured now is a good time to go see if they'd really be a good fit
for us. The seller was selling on behalf of his brother and didn't
know much about it.

Engine started right up, but the smell of diesel was extremely strong
outside the front end, passenger side. Is that normal?

The diesel genset didn't want to start up, he thought it was fed by a
separate tank, but I dont think that is the case.

Outside was rough, definately needed a new coat of paint. Inside was
decent. Was nice being in an older unit with not a signle sign of a
leak. Much of the uppolstry needed to be replaced, couchs, chairs,
dinnettes. And the carpet was ugh-riginal.

12V electrical system was great for lights, but nearly everything on
the dash was dead. Gauges seemed to work, but switches were all
useless. A/C, Heat etc didnt work.

As for the 110V stuff, I couldn't test with no genset and no shore
power.

Awnings needed some help, but I was about done by the time I got to
them, that I didn't even check them out.

Man, this thing could be nice to someone who wants to put a bit of
time into it, just not sure I'm really up to it at this point in the
game.

Question is, should I lowball this guy? And see if I can get it at a
price where I could pay someone else to fix the broken "stuff"? Any
factor sound like sign of something much worse?
"


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jack & Donna Smith"
wrote:
>
>
> Old Bird or Newer?? Well, as some say, "You Pays Your Money, and
> Takes Your Choice"...
> Our 1973 Bird lacks some of the items that are standard on Newer
> coaches, but also lack some of the headaches..What is a "Sporlian
> Valve", anyway, or "Air Operated Sreps"?
> As my old pappy said, "What ain't there, cant break".
> Some costs are less, such as my yearly DMV fee of $67,(even here in
> the Land of Arnold), and lower Insurance costs, and it afforded me
> my unique method of financing, One Payment & walk away with the
Pink
> Slip..
> But make no mistake, repairs may be necessary, and as Jeff Miller
> said, "Pay Now, oor Pay Later".
> The old coaches are much simpler and therefore easier (read Cheaper)
> to maintain.
> The great thing about Bluebirds is that they practically never wear
> out. A lot of the original items on our coach are still working,
> while I imagine my old "Sticks & Staples Tioga is probably in that
> Big KOA in the Sky...
> We also like to visit the various RV dealers and look over the
> current crop.. It is real interesting to see the look on the
> salesmans face when he asks us if we have an RV and we reply, "Yes,
> a Bluebird". We are usually left alone after that......
> Jack Smith
> 1973FC31
> SoCal
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <mike.putz@>
> wrote:
> >
> > I also agree with everything I've read here. I own a 63 Bluebird
> > conversion and just recently purchased a 78FC35. I choose this
> bus
> > to upgrade to a diesel, leveling jacks, bigger generator, etc..
I
> > did not want air bags as I like to go off road often with a
> trailer
> > full of quads and dirt bikes. I wanted something tough with
> ground
> > clearance. I had the pleasure of driving my friends 90SP36 from
> > Texas to Arizona not long ago. It was very nice, plush, fancy,
> and
> > strong with the 300 HP Cat. However, it was just not for me. So
> old
> > or new.. you can't go wrong with these busses. I'm a "bang-for-
> buck"
> > kind of guy on a small budget so the FC's were perfect!
> > Just another 2 cents...
> >
> > Michael
> > 78FC35 "Putz'n Around"
> > Mesa, Az
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bubblerboy64"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Leroy, I think everything that has been said is on target. You
> > > certainly want the best that you can buy. No doubt the later
> FC's
> > > are considerably improved and being newer should in theory at
> least
> > > be in better condition. That being said there is always the
> debate
> > as
> > > to how much a guy should spend on an FC before he considers a
> PT. I
> > > have never ridden in or experienced a late model FC but my
> thoughts
> > > are if I was going to spend upwards of 50K would I add to it a
> > little
> > > (or a lot) and go with a PT. These are things you have to
> decide.
> > I
> > > was there a year ago and I am certain all of us would agree
that
> > you
> > > should invest in some travel and time to investigate a number
of
> > > these coaches before you buy. I think personal preference and
> how
> > > you are going to use the coach are the critical things to
> > consider.
> > > I love my old 1973 but if I was intending to make a lot of long
> > runs
> > > I would consider moving up. My coach is also smallish for more
> then
> > > two. I consider it like buying any vehicle you want to match it
> to
> > > your use as well as your pocket book.
> > > John Heckman
> > > central Pa
> > > 1973 FC
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "michaelhohnstein"
> > > > <MHOHNSTEIN@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "campingleroy"
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I have experience with quite a few mid 80s Birds, buying
> > selling
> > > > > and "fixing on." My 83 rear bath suits the wife and I real
> > well
> > > > and
> > > > > I wouldn't trade it for a triple slide anything. Not even
a
> > > Newell.
> > > > > That being said, I recommend 87 and newer FCs for those who
> > wish
> > > to
> > > > > get into a vintage Bird. The engine and accessories are
much
> > > easier
> > > > > to maintain due to improved design engine cover and swing
> > > radiator.
> > > > > 86 and older are a pain to adjust valves on, and that's not
> > good.
> > > > > Moreover the 87 up has a charge air cooler and 300 hp., a
> very
> > > > > welcome feature when trying to get down the road. The ZF
> trans
> > > is
> > > > a
> > > > > great piece and features OD.
> > > > > My 83 has been upgraded to 87 specs. Fiberglass engine
> cover,
> > > > > charge air cooler and inlet air enhancements. The Allison
> is
> > > > backed
> > > > > by a drive line OD transmission in front of the Jake
> retarder.
> > > > > I was able to do all this 'stuff' to my Bird due the line
of
> > work
> > > > > I'm in. Much easier to just pay a little more and get the
> > newer
> > > > > version, and it's all done for you.
> > > > > MH
> > > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My wife and I really like a lot of things about vintage
> > birds,
> > > > > > including the safety, reliability, and durability. I
> think a
> > > mid
> > > > > 80s
> > > > > > FC would be about the best fit for us and our budget.
The
> > one
> > > > > with a
> > > > > > double bed in the back, and 2 couches up front.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I dont mind tinkering and working on a lot of projects.
> Our
> > > > > current
> > > > > > coach is a 1989 Class C, I had to rebuild the entire cab
> over
> > > on
> > > > > that.
> > > > > > But I'm by no means a mechanic. I do consider myself to
> be
> > > very
> > > > > > mechanically inclined though. I can follow directions
> really
> > > > > well, if
> > > > > > there are procedures on doing projects though. And based
> on
> > > what
> > > > > I
> > > > > > know or believe things to cost, I can't afford to have a
> > > mechanic
> > > > > do
> > > > > > every bit of maintenance these things need. The
> electrical
> > > > > problems
> > > > > > concern me much less than mechanical ones.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My question is, should I steer away from these old
birds?
> Is
> > > the
> > > > > > majority of the work something that an average person
> could
> > do
> > > > > given
> > > > > > patience and research/reading? Don't want to get myself
> in
> > > over
> > > > > my
> > > > > > head.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would DEFINATELY want to hire someone to look at a unit
> > > before
> > > > > > purchasing, to make sure I understood what I was getting
> > myself
> > > > > into.
> > > > > > If I get to that point, I'll be asking here for
> > recommendations
> > > > on
> > > > > who.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I would just say this and that is buy from a person who loves
> his
> > > old
> > > > coach! Pay a little bit more but then most of the work has
> been
> > > done.
> > > > As far as Vlv adjustment that only happens every 50,000 miles
> and
> > > my
> > > > coach has only had that done two times. Yep and beside my old
> > coach
> > > > gets 10 mpg (1978) and the newer ones well we all know they
> were
> > > made
> > > > for cheap fuel prices in mind. Jon
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[mariopatti1]

Leroy
Yes the 1985 FC is the best. Mario 1985FC35
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "campingleroy"
wrote:
>
> My wife and I really like a lot of things about vintage birds,
> including the safety, reliability, and durability. I think a mid
80s
> FC would be about the best fit for us and our budget. The one
with a
> double bed in the back, and 2 couches up front.
>
> I dont mind tinkering and working on a lot of projects. Our
current
> coach is a 1989 Class C, I had to rebuild the entire cab over on
that.
> But I'm by no means a mechanic. I do consider myself to be very
> mechanically inclined though. I can follow directions really
well, if
> there are procedures on doing projects though. And based on what
I
> know or believe things to cost, I can't afford to have a mechanic
do
> every bit of maintenance these things need. The electrical
problems
> concern me much less than mechanical ones.
>
> My question is, should I steer away from these old birds? Is the
> majority of the work something that an average person could do
given
> patience and research/reading? Don't want to get myself in over
my
> head.
>
> I would DEFINATELY want to hire someone to look at a unit before
> purchasing, to make sure I understood what I was getting myself
into.
> If I get to that point, I'll be asking here for recommendations on
who.
>

[Henry Jay Hannigan]

Jack:
Enjoyed your "salesman..left alone story.."
LOL
Hank
90SP36






--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jack & Donna Smith"
wrote:
>
>
> Old Bird or Newer?? Well, as some say, "You Pays Your Money, and
> Takes Your Choice"...
> Our 1973 Bird lacks some of the items that are standard on Newer
> coaches, but also lack some of the headaches..What is a "Sporlian
> Valve", anyway, or "Air Operated Sreps"?
> As my old pappy said, "What ain't there, cant break".
> Some costs are less, such as my yearly DMV fee of $67,(even here in
> the Land of Arnold), and lower Insurance costs, and it afforded me
> my unique method of financing, One Payment & walk away with the
Pink
> Slip..
> But make no mistake, repairs may be necessary, and as Jeff Miller
> said, "Pay Now, oor Pay Later".
> The old coaches are much simpler and therefore easier (read Cheaper)
> to maintain.
> The great thing about Bluebirds is that they practically never wear
> out. A lot of the original items on our coach are still working,
> while I imagine my old "Sticks & Staples Tioga is probably in that
> Big KOA in the Sky...
> We also like to visit the various RV dealers and look over the
> current crop.. It is real interesting to see the look on the
> salesmans face when he asks us if we have an RV and we reply, "Yes,
> a Bluebird". We are usually left alone after that......
> Jack Smith
> 1973FC31
> SoCal
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <mike.putz@>
> wrote:
> >
> > I also agree with everything I've read here. I own a 63 Bluebird
> > conversion and just recently purchased a 78FC35. I choose this
> bus
> > to upgrade to a diesel, leveling jacks, bigger generator, etc..
I
> > did not want air bags as I like to go off road often with a
> trailer
> > full of quads and dirt bikes. I wanted something tough with
> ground
> > clearance. I had the pleasure of driving my friends 90SP36 from
> > Texas to Arizona not long ago. It was very nice, plush, fancy,
> and
> > strong with the 300 HP Cat. However, it was just not for me. So
> old
> > or new.. you can't go wrong with these busses. I'm a "bang-for-
> buck"
> > kind of guy on a small budget so the FC's were perfect!
> > Just another 2 cents...
> >
> > Michael
> > 78FC35 "Putz'n Around"
> > Mesa, Az
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bubblerboy64"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Leroy, I think everything that has been said is on target. You
> > > certainly want the best that you can buy. No doubt the later
> FC's
> > > are considerably improved and being newer should in theory at
> least
> > > be in better condition. That being said there is always the
> debate
> > as
> > > to how much a guy should spend on an FC before he considers a
> PT. I
> > > have never ridden in or experienced a late model FC but my
> thoughts
> > > are if I was going to spend upwards of 50K would I add to it a
> > little
> > > (or a lot) and go with a PT. These are things you have to
> decide.
> > I
> > > was there a year ago and I am certain all of us would agree
that
> > you
> > > should invest in some travel and time to investigate a number
of
> > > these coaches before you buy. I think personal preference and
> how
> > > you are going to use the coach are the critical things to
> > consider.
> > > I love my old 1973 but if I was intending to make a lot of long
> > runs
> > > I would consider moving up. My coach is also smallish for more
> then
> > > two. I consider it like buying any vehicle you want to match it
> to
> > > your use as well as your pocket book.
> > > John Heckman
> > > central Pa
> > > 1973 FC
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "michaelhohnstein"
> > > > <MHOHNSTEIN@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "campingleroy"
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I have experience with quite a few mid 80s Birds, buying
> > selling
> > > > > and "fixing on." My 83 rear bath suits the wife and I real
> > well
> > > > and
> > > > > I wouldn't trade it for a triple slide anything. Not even
a
> > > Newell.
> > > > > That being said, I recommend 87 and newer FCs for those who
> > wish
> > > to
> > > > > get into a vintage Bird. The engine and accessories are
much
> > > easier
> > > > > to maintain due to improved design engine cover and swing
> > > radiator.
> > > > > 86 and older are a pain to adjust valves on, and that's not
> > good.
> > > > > Moreover the 87 up has a charge air cooler and 300 hp., a
> very
> > > > > welcome feature when trying to get down the road. The ZF
> trans
> > > is
> > > > a
> > > > > great piece and features OD.
> > > > > My 83 has been upgraded to 87 specs. Fiberglass engine
> cover,
> > > > > charge air cooler and inlet air enhancements. The Allison
> is
> > > > backed
> > > > > by a drive line OD transmission in front of the Jake
> retarder.
> > > > > I was able to do all this 'stuff' to my Bird due the line
of
> > work
> > > > > I'm in. Much easier to just pay a little more and get the
> > newer
> > > > > version, and it's all done for you.
> > > > > MH
> > > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My wife and I really like a lot of things about vintage
> > birds,
> > > > > > including the safety, reliability, and durability. I
> think a
> > > mid
> > > > > 80s
> > > > > > FC would be about the best fit for us and our budget.
The
> > one
> > > > > with a
> > > > > > double bed in the back, and 2 couches up front.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I dont mind tinkering and working on a lot of projects.
> Our
> > > > > current
> > > > > > coach is a 1989 Class C, I had to rebuild the entire cab
> over
> > > on
> > > > > that.
> > > > > > But I'm by no means a mechanic. I do consider myself to
> be
> > > very
> > > > > > mechanically inclined though. I can follow directions
> really
> > > > > well, if
> > > > > > there are procedures on doing projects though. And based
> on
> > > what
> > > > > I
> > > > > > know or believe things to cost, I can't afford to have a
> > > mechanic
> > > > > do
> > > > > > every bit of maintenance these things need. The
> electrical
> > > > > problems
> > > > > > concern me much less than mechanical ones.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My question is, should I steer away from these old
birds?
> Is
> > > the
> > > > > > majority of the work something that an average person
> could
> > do
> > > > > given
> > > > > > patience and research/reading? Don't want to get myself
> in
> > > over
> > > > > my
> > > > > > head.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would DEFINATELY want to hire someone to look at a unit
> > > before
> > > > > > purchasing, to make sure I understood what I was getting
> > myself
> > > > > into.
> > > > > > If I get to that point, I'll be asking here for
> > recommendations
> > > > on
> > > > > who.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I would just say this and that is buy from a person who loves
> his
> > > old
> > > > coach! Pay a little bit more but then most of the work has
> been
> > > done.
> > > > As far as Vlv adjustment that only happens every 50,000 miles
> and
> > > my
> > > > coach has only had that done two times. Yep and beside my old
> > coach
> > > > gets 10 mpg (1978) and the newer ones well we all know they
> were
> > > made
> > > > for cheap fuel prices in mind. Jon
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[Leroy Eckert]

Based on your description, he would have to give it to you. For starters a top quality paint job would cost 12-15K. And it goes up from there. It would be best to pay a little more and buy one someone has modified and loved. JMO Leroy Eckert 1990 WB-40 Royale Dahlonega, GA Smoke N Mirrors --- On Tue, 6/24/08, campingleroy wrote: From: campingleroy Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Should we even be looking at Old Birds? To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, June 24, 2008, 11:25 PM Wow tons of great feedback and fast! This forum definately seems very helpful, and really helps me feel more comfortable about making a step toward an older coach, and knowing i have a team to help me figure things out. I think that I'd be better at actually doing the repairs/maintenance than troubleshooting problems at least on the mechancial stuff, until I got to know things a bit more. A bit more background on us. We're late 20s, early 30s, with 2 girls under 3 years old. We currently travel about 1 big trip a year and 2- 4 more smaller weekend trips. We expect that will increase again as the girls get older (read out of diapers and crib). I work in IT with computers for a living, and have done nearly every type of work around the house and my RV, with only limited mechanical work. I think we'd like an 83 or 84 FC based on all i read. They have the power of the Turbo, and also air suspension, but still aren't too pricey. We want the diesel engine and the diesel generator. We want the one with twin couches up front, and a double bed in the back. I dont have an exact budget at the moment. Obviously the less I could spend the better, but I want the most reliable coach I can get too. I would like to spend near $20K. Thanks for all the great feedback. I had heard a lot of good stuff about this place from the RV.NET group, and it definately seems like you've got a great group. We actually went and checked out an 83 this weekend. Floor plan was cool, perfect. But it left me with a lot of questions. Here's an excerpt from what I wrote on RV.NEt about it. "Late last night I found a deal on an old 1983 Wanderlodge an hour or so south of me. We've been thinking for a few years that it would be very nice to have an old Bird. This deal seemed too good to be true, $12,000. I'd never personally been inside a vintage bird, so i figured now is a good time to go see if they'd really be a good fit for us. The seller was selling on behalf of his brother and didn't know much about it. Engine started right up, but the smell of diesel was extremely strong outside the front end, passenger side. Is that normal? The diesel genset didn't want to start up, he thought it was fed by a separate tank, but I dont think that is the case. Outside was rough, definately needed a new coat of paint. Inside was decent. Was nice being in an older unit with not a signle sign of a leak. Much of the uppolstry needed to be replaced, couchs, chairs, dinnettes. And the carpet was ugh-riginal. 12V electrical system was great for lights, but nearly everything on the dash was dead. Gauges seemed to work, but switches were all useless. A/C, Heat etc didnt work. As for the 110V stuff, I couldn't test with no genset and no shore power. Awnings needed some help, but I was about done by the time I got to them, that I didn't even check them out. Man, this thing could be nice to someone who wants to put a bit of time into it, just not sure I'm really up to it at this point in the game. Question is, should I lowball this guy? And see if I can get it at a price where I could pay someone else to fix the broken "stuff"? Any factor sound like sign of something much worse? " --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "Jack & Donna Smith" wrote: > > > Old Bird or Newer?? Well, as some say, "You Pays Your Money, and > Takes Your Choice"... > Our 1973 Bird lacks some of the items that are standard on Newer > coaches, but also lack some of the headaches..What is a "Sporlian > Valve", anyway, or "Air Operated Sreps"? > As my old pappy said, "What ain't there, cant break". > Some costs are less, such as my yearly DMV fee of $67,(even here in > the Land of Arnold), and lower Insurance costs, and it afforded me > my unique method of financing, One Payment & walk away with the Pink > Slip.. > But make no mistake, repairs may be necessary, and as Jeff Miller > said, "Pay Now, oor Pay Later". > The old coaches are much simpler and therefore easier (read Cheaper) > to maintain. > The great thing about Bluebirds is that they practically never wear > out. A lot of the original items on our coach are still working, > while I imagine my old "Sticks & Staples Tioga is probably in that > Big KOA in the Sky... > We also like to visit the various RV dealers and look over the > current crop.. It is real interesting to see the look on the > salesmans face when he asks us if we have an RV and we reply, "Yes, > a Bluebird". We are usually left alone after that...... > Jack Smith > 1973FC31 > SoCal > > > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "Michael" <mike.putz@> > wrote: > > > > I also agree with everything I've read here. I own a 63 Bluebird > > conversion and just recently purchased a 78FC35. I choose this > bus > > to upgrade to a diesel, leveling jacks, bigger generator, etc.. I > > did not want air bags as I like to go off road often with a > trailer > > full of quads and dirt bikes. I wanted something tough with > ground > > clearance. I had the pleasure of driving my friends 90SP36 from > > Texas to Arizona not long ago. It was very nice, plush, fancy, > and > > strong with the 300 HP Cat. However, it was just not for me. So > old > > or new.. you can't go wrong with these busses. I'm a "bang-for- > buck" > > kind of guy on a small budget so the FC's were perfect! > > Just another 2 cents... > > > > Michael > > 78FC35 "Putz'n Around" > > Mesa, Az > > > > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "bubblerboy64" > > wrote: > > > > > > Leroy, I think everything that has been said is on target. You > > > certainly want the best that you can buy. No doubt the later > FC's > > > are considerably improved and being newer should in theory at > least > > > be in better condition. That being said there is always the > debate > > as > > > to how much a guy should spend on an FC before he considers a > PT. I > > > have never ridden in or experienced a late model FC but my > thoughts > > > are if I was going to spend upwards of 50K would I add to it a > > little > > > (or a lot) and go with a PT. These are things you have to > decide. > > I > > > was there a year ago and I am certain all of us would agree that > > you > > > should invest in some travel and time to investigate a number of > > > these coaches before you buy. I think personal preference and > how > > > you are going to use the coach are the critical things to > > consider. > > > I love my old 1973 but if I was intending to make a lot of long > > runs > > > I would consider moving up. My coach is also smallish for more > then > > > two. I consider it like buying any vehicle you want to match it > to > > > your use as well as your pocket book. > > > John Heckman > > > central Pa > > > 1973 FC > > > > > > > > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "michaelhohnstein" > > > > <MHOHNSTEIN@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "campingleroy" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have experience with quite a few mid 80s Birds, buying > > selling > > > > > and "fixing on." My 83 rear bath suits the wife and I real > > well > > > > and > > > > > I wouldn't trade it for a triple slide anything. Not even a > > > Newell. > > > > > That being said, I recommend 87 and newer FCs for those who > > wish > > > to > > > > > get into a vintage Bird. The engine and accessories are much > > > easier > > > > > to maintain due to improved design engine cover and swing > > > radiator. > > > > > 86 and older are a pain to adjust valves on, and that's not > > good. > > > > > Moreover the 87 up has a charge air cooler and 300 hp., a > very > > > > > welcome feature when trying to get down the road. The ZF > trans > > > is > > > > a > > > > > great piece and features OD. > > > > > My 83 has been upgraded to 87 specs. Fiberglass engine > cover, > > > > > charge air cooler and inlet air enhancements. The Allison > is > > > > backed > > > > > by a drive line OD transmission in front of the Jake > retarder. > > > > > I was able to do all this 'stuff' to my Bird due the line of > > work > > > > > I'm in. Much easier to just pay a little more and get the > > newer > > > > > version, and it's all done for you. > > > > > MH > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > My wife and I really like a lot of things about vintage > > birds, > > > > > > including the safety, reliability, and durability. I > think a > > > mid > > > > > 80s > > > > > > FC would be about the best fit for us and our budget. The > > one > > > > > with a > > > > > > double bed in the back, and 2 couches up front. > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont mind tinkering and working on a lot of projects. > Our > > > > > current > > > > > > coach is a 1989 Class C, I had to rebuild the entire cab > over > > > on > > > > > that. > > > > > > But I'm by no means a mechanic. I do consider myself to > be > > > very > > > > > > mechanically inclined though. I can follow directions > really > > > > > well, if > > > > > > there are procedures on doing projects though. And based > on > > > what > > > > > I > > > > > > know or believe things to cost, I can't afford to have a > > > mechanic > > > > > do > > > > > > every bit of maintenance these things need. The > electrical > > > > > problems > > > > > > concern me much less than mechanical ones. > > > > > > > > > > > > My question is, should I steer away from these old birds? > Is > > > the > > > > > > majority of the work something that an average person > could > > do > > > > > given > > > > > > patience and research/reading? Don't want to get myself > in > > > over > > > > > my > > > > > > head. > > > > > > > > > > > > I would DEFINATELY want to hire someone to look at a unit > > > before > > > > > > purchasing, to make sure I understood what I was getting > > myself > > > > > into. > > > > > > If I get to that point, I'll be asking here for > > recommendations > > > > on > > > > > who. > > > > > > > > > > > > I would just say this and that is buy from a person who loves > his > > > old > > > > coach! Pay a little bit more but then most of the work has > been > > > done. > > > > As far as Vlv adjustment that only happens every 50,000 miles > and > > > my > > > > coach has only had that done two times. Yep and beside my old > > coach > > > > gets 10 mpg (1978) and the newer ones well we all know they > were > > > made > > > > for cheap fuel prices in mind. Jon > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

[bubblerboy64]

Leroy, I think your on the right path. Certainly there are coaches
out there that meet your "wish list". Keep in mind that you are a lot
better buying a "good" one and spending a little more up front then
buying one that needs a lot of work. Look for one that was driven
and maintained and that shows that it was obviously loved. Keep in
mind that you will spend additional money on the coach to make it
yours. I paid just under 20K for my 1973 and I have added at least
another 10K to that. I have none a fair amount that didn't have to
be done but what I wanted to do to make it the way I wanted it. That
is my personality. Try to buy one with recent tires and batteries or
factor that into the negotiation. Old tires (ten years max) are not
to be trusted even if the tread is new. It takes big bucks to paint
a BB so if the paint is not good and that bothers you consider that.
So good luck and let us know what you are looking at and we will no
doubt give our opinions.
John Heckman
central Pa
1973 FC
> Wow tons of great feedback and fast! This forum definately seems
> very helpful, and really helps me feel more comfortable about
making
> a step toward an older coach, and knowing i have a team to help me
> figure things out.
>
> I think that I'd be better at actually doing the
repairs/maintenance
> than troubleshooting problems at least on the mechancial stuff,
until
> I got to know things a bit more.
>
> A bit more background on us. We're late 20s, early 30s, with 2
girls
> under 3 years old. We currently travel about 1 big trip a year and
2-
> 4 more smaller weekend trips. We expect that will increase again
as
> the girls get older (read out of diapers and crib).
>
> I work in IT with computers for a living, and have done nearly
every
> type of work around the house and my RV, with only limited
mechanical
> work.
>
> I think we'd like an 83 or 84 FC based on all i read. They have
the
> power of the Turbo, and also air suspension, but still aren't too
> pricey. We want the diesel engine and the diesel generator. We
want
> the one with twin couches up front, and a double bed in the back.
>
> I dont have an exact budget at the moment. Obviously the less I
> could spend the better, but I want the most reliable coach I can
get
> too. I would like to spend near $20K.
>
> Thanks for all the great feedback. I had heard a lot of good stuff
> about this place from the RV.NET group, and it definately seems
like
> you've got a great group.
>
>
> We actually went and checked out an 83 this weekend. Floor plan
was
> cool, perfect. But it left me with a lot of questions. Here's an
> excerpt from what I wrote on RV.NEt about it.
>
> "Late last night I found a deal on an old 1983 Wanderlodge an hour
or
> so south of me. We've been thinking for a few years that it would
be
> very nice to have an old Bird. This deal seemed too good to be
true,
> $12,000. I'd never personally been inside a vintage bird, so i
> figured now is a good time to go see if they'd really be a good fit
> for us. The seller was selling on behalf of his brother and didn't
> know much about it.
>
> Engine started right up, but the smell of diesel was extremely
strong
> outside the front end, passenger side. Is that normal?
>
> The diesel genset didn't want to start up, he thought it was fed by
a
> separate tank, but I dont think that is the case.
>
> Outside was rough, definately needed a new coat of paint. Inside
was
> decent. Was nice being in an older unit with not a signle sign of a
> leak. Much of the uppolstry needed to be replaced, couchs, chairs,
> dinnettes. And the carpet was ugh-riginal.
>
> 12V electrical system was great for lights, but nearly everything
on
> the dash was dead. Gauges seemed to work, but switches were all
> useless. A/C, Heat etc didnt work.
>
> As for the 110V stuff, I couldn't test with no genset and no shore
> power.
>
> Awnings needed some help, but I was about done by the time I got to
> them, that I didn't even check them out.
>
> Man, this thing could be nice to someone who wants to put a bit of
> time into it, just not sure I'm really up to it at this point in
the
> game.
>
> Question is, should I lowball this guy? And see if I can get it at
a
> price where I could pay someone else to fix the broken "stuff"? Any
> factor sound like sign of something much worse?
> "
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jack & Donna Smith"
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Old Bird or Newer?? Well, as some say, "You Pays Your Money, and
> > Takes Your Choice"...
> > Our 1973 Bird lacks some of the items that are standard on Newer
> > coaches, but also lack some of the headaches..What is a "Sporlian
> > Valve", anyway, or "Air Operated Sreps"?
> > As my old pappy said, "What ain't there, cant break".
> > Some costs are less, such as my yearly DMV fee of $67,(even here
in
> > the Land of Arnold), and lower Insurance costs, and it afforded
me
> > my unique method of financing, One Payment & walk away with the
> Pink
> > Slip..
> > But make no mistake, repairs may be necessary, and as Jeff Miller
> > said, "Pay Now, oor Pay Later".
> > The old coaches are much simpler and therefore easier (read
Cheaper)
> > to maintain.
> > The great thing about Bluebirds is that they practically never
wear
> > out. A lot of the original items on our coach are still working,
> > while I imagine my old "Sticks & Staples Tioga is probably in
that
> > Big KOA in the Sky...
> > We also like to visit the various RV dealers and look over the
> > current crop.. It is real interesting to see the look on the
> > salesmans face when he asks us if we have an RV and we
reply, "Yes,
> > a Bluebird". We are usually left alone after that......
> > Jack Smith
> > 1973FC31
> > SoCal
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <mike.putz@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I also agree with everything I've read here. I own a 63
Bluebird
> > > conversion and just recently purchased a 78FC35. I choose this
> > bus
> > > to upgrade to a diesel, leveling jacks, bigger generator,
etc..
> I
> > > did not want air bags as I like to go off road often with a
> > trailer
> > > full of quads and dirt bikes. I wanted something tough with
> > ground
> > > clearance. I had the pleasure of driving my friends 90SP36
from
> > > Texas to Arizona not long ago. It was very nice, plush, fancy,
> > and
> > > strong with the 300 HP Cat. However, it was just not for me.
So
> > old
> > > or new.. you can't go wrong with these busses. I'm a "bang-for-
> > buck"
> > > kind of guy on a small budget so the FC's were perfect!
> > > Just another 2 cents...
> > >
> > > Michael
> > > 78FC35 "Putz'n Around"
> > > Mesa, Az
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bubblerboy64"

> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Leroy, I think everything that has been said is on target.
You
> > > > certainly want the best that you can buy. No doubt the later
> > FC's
> > > > are considerably improved and being newer should in theory at
> > least
> > > > be in better condition. That being said there is always the
> > debate
> > > as
> > > > to how much a guy should spend on an FC before he considers a
> > PT. I
> > > > have never ridden in or experienced a late model FC but my
> > thoughts
> > > > are if I was going to spend upwards of 50K would I add to it
a
> > > little
> > > > (or a lot) and go with a PT. These are things you have to
> > decide.
> > > I
> > > > was there a year ago and I am certain all of us would agree
> that
> > > you
> > > > should invest in some travel and time to investigate a number
> of
> > > > these coaches before you buy. I think personal preference
and
> > how
> > > > you are going to use the coach are the critical things to
> > > consider.
> > > > I love my old 1973 but if I was intending to make a lot of
long
> > > runs
> > > > I would consider moving up. My coach is also smallish for
more
> > then
> > > > two. I consider it like buying any vehicle you want to match
it
> > to
> > > > your use as well as your pocket book.
> > > > John Heckman
> > > > central Pa
> > > > 1973 FC
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "michaelhohnstein"
> > > > > <MHOHNSTEIN@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "campingleroy"
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have experience with quite a few mid 80s Birds, buying
> > > selling
> > > > > > and "fixing on." My 83 rear bath suits the wife and I
real
> > > well
> > > > > and
> > > > > > I wouldn't trade it for a triple slide anything. Not
even
> a
> > > > Newell.
> > > > > > That being said, I recommend 87 and newer FCs for those
who
> > > wish
> > > > to
> > > > > > get into a vintage Bird. The engine and accessories are
> much
> > > > easier
> > > > > > to maintain due to improved design engine cover and swing
> > > > radiator.
> > > > > > 86 and older are a pain to adjust valves on, and that's
not
> > > good.
> > > > > > Moreover the 87 up has a charge air cooler and 300 hp., a
> > very
> > > > > > welcome feature when trying to get down the road. The ZF
> > trans
> > > > is
> > > > > a
> > > > > > great piece and features OD.
> > > > > > My 83 has been upgraded to 87 specs. Fiberglass engine
> > cover,
> > > > > > charge air cooler and inlet air enhancements. The
Allison
> > is
> > > > > backed
> > > > > > by a drive line OD transmission in front of the Jake
> > retarder.
> > > > > > I was able to do all this 'stuff' to my Bird due the line
> of
> > > work
> > > > > > I'm in. Much easier to just pay a little more and get
the
> > > newer
> > > > > > version, and it's all done for you.
> > > > > > MH
> > > > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My wife and I really like a lot of things about vintage
> > > birds,
> > > > > > > including the safety, reliability, and durability. I
> > think a
> > > > mid
> > > > > > 80s
> > > > > > > FC would be about the best fit for us and our budget.
> The
> > > one
> > > > > > with a
> > > > > > > double bed in the back, and 2 couches up front.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I dont mind tinkering and working on a lot of
projects.
> > Our
> > > > > > current
> > > > > > > coach is a 1989 Class C, I had to rebuild the entire
cab
> > over
> > > > on
> > > > > > that.
> > > > > > > But I'm by no means a mechanic. I do consider myself
to
> > be
> > > > very
> > > > > > > mechanically inclined though. I can follow directions
> > really
> > > > > > well, if
> > > > > > > there are procedures on doing projects though. And
based
> > on
> > > > what
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > know or believe things to cost, I can't afford to have
a
> > > > mechanic
> > > > > > do
> > > > > > > every bit of maintenance these things need. The
> > electrical
> > > > > > problems
> > > > > > > concern me much less than mechanical ones.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My question is, should I steer away from these old
> birds?
> > Is
> > > > the
> > > > > > > majority of the work something that an average person
> > could
> > > do
> > > > > > given
> > > > > > > patience and research/reading? Don't want to get
myself
> > in
> > > > over
> > > > > > my
> > > > > > > head.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I would DEFINATELY want to hire someone to look at a
unit
> > > > before
> > > > > > > purchasing, to make sure I understood what I was
getting
> > > myself
> > > > > > into.
> > > > > > > If I get to that point, I'll be asking here for
> > > recommendations
> > > > > on
> > > > > > who.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I would just say this and that is buy from a person who
loves
> > his
> > > > old
> > > > > coach! Pay a little bit more but then most of the work has
> > been
> > > > done.
> > > > > As far as Vlv adjustment that only happens every 50,000
miles
> > and
> > > > my
> > > > > coach has only had that done two times. Yep and beside my
old
> > > coach
> > > > > gets 10 mpg (1978) and the newer ones well we all know they
> > were
> > > > made
> > > > > for cheap fuel prices in mind. Jon
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[bubblerboy64]

Just to agree with Leroy. When looking at coaches last year I did
see several which would have needed tires, batteries and a paint job.
I did not even make an offer on something in that class. It only
insults the seller and gets you no where. I remember one which was
for sale buy a nice older gentleman who hated to sell his coach. He
was asking $13,000. The tires, well, I wouldn't have driven around
the block on them. The paint was ruff and the rest of the coach was
average. Who knows what the coach was like underneath. I really
don't think I would have taken it if he would have given it to me,
but he did eventually sell it. For what I have no clue. You will be
able to find a decent FC for $25K and you should be able to find a
real gem for $30k (in my opinion) remember they are only worth what
the seller and buyer agree on.
John Heckman
central Pa
1973 FC
>
> Leroy, I think your on the right path. Certainly there are
coaches
> out there that meet your "wish list". Keep in mind that you are a
lot
> better buying a "good" one and spending a little more up front then
> buying one that needs a lot of work. Look for one that was driven
> and maintained and that shows that it was obviously loved. Keep in
> mind that you will spend additional money on the coach to make it
> yours. I paid just under 20K for my 1973 and I have added at least
> another 10K to that. I have none a fair amount that didn't have to
> be done but what I wanted to do to make it the way I wanted it.
That
> is my personality. Try to buy one with recent tires and batteries
or
> factor that into the negotiation. Old tires (ten years max) are
not
> to be trusted even if the tread is new. It takes big bucks to
paint
> a BB so if the paint is not good and that bothers you consider
that.
> So good luck and let us know what you are looking at and we will no
> doubt give our opinions.
> John Heckman
> central Pa
> 1973 FC
> > Wow tons of great feedback and fast! This forum definately seems
> > very helpful, and really helps me feel more comfortable about
> making
> > a step toward an older coach, and knowing i have a team to help
me
> > figure things out.
> >
> > I think that I'd be better at actually doing the
> repairs/maintenance
> > than troubleshooting problems at least on the mechancial stuff,
> until
> > I got to know things a bit more.
> >
> > A bit more background on us. We're late 20s, early 30s, with 2
> girls
> > under 3 years old. We currently travel about 1 big trip a year
and
> 2-
> > 4 more smaller weekend trips. We expect that will increase again
> as
> > the girls get older (read out of diapers and crib).
> >
> > I work in IT with computers for a living, and have done nearly
> every
> > type of work around the house and my RV, with only limited
> mechanical
> > work.
> >
> > I think we'd like an 83 or 84 FC based on all i read. They have
> the
> > power of the Turbo, and also air suspension, but still aren't too
> > pricey. We want the diesel engine and the diesel generator. We
> want
> > the one with twin couches up front, and a double bed in the back.
> >
> > I dont have an exact budget at the moment. Obviously the less I
> > could spend the better, but I want the most reliable coach I can
> get
> > too. I would like to spend near $20K.
> >
> > Thanks for all the great feedback. I had heard a lot of good
stuff
> > about this place from the RV.NET group, and it definately seems
> like
> > you've got a great group.
> >
> >
> > We actually went and checked out an 83 this weekend. Floor plan
> was
> > cool, perfect. But it left me with a lot of questions. Here's
an
> > excerpt from what I wrote on RV.NEt about it.
> >
> > "Late last night I found a deal on an old 1983 Wanderlodge an
hour
> or
> > so south of me. We've been thinking for a few years that it would
> be
> > very nice to have an old Bird. This deal seemed too good to be
> true,
> > $12,000. I'd never personally been inside a vintage bird, so i
> > figured now is a good time to go see if they'd really be a good
fit
> > for us. The seller was selling on behalf of his brother and
didn't
> > know much about it.
> >
> > Engine started right up, but the smell of diesel was extremely
> strong
> > outside the front end, passenger side. Is that normal?
> >
> > The diesel genset didn't want to start up, he thought it was fed
by
> a
> > separate tank, but I dont think that is the case.
> >
> > Outside was rough, definately needed a new coat of paint. Inside
> was
> > decent. Was nice being in an older unit with not a signle sign of
a
> > leak. Much of the uppolstry needed to be replaced, couchs,
chairs,
> > dinnettes. And the carpet was ugh-riginal.
> >
> > 12V electrical system was great for lights, but nearly everything
> on
> > the dash was dead. Gauges seemed to work, but switches were all
> > useless. A/C, Heat etc didnt work.
> >
> > As for the 110V stuff, I couldn't test with no genset and no
shore
> > power.
> >
> > Awnings needed some help, but I was about done by the time I got
to
> > them, that I didn't even check them out.
> >
> > Man, this thing could be nice to someone who wants to put a bit
of
> > time into it, just not sure I'm really up to it at this point in
> the
> > game.
> >
> > Question is, should I lowball this guy? And see if I can get it
at
> a
> > price where I could pay someone else to fix the broken "stuff"?
Any
> > factor sound like sign of something much worse?
> > "
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jack & Donna Smith"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Old Bird or Newer?? Well, as some say, "You Pays Your Money,
and
> > > Takes Your Choice"...
> > > Our 1973 Bird lacks some of the items that are standard on
Newer
> > > coaches, but also lack some of the headaches..What is
a "Sporlian
> > > Valve", anyway, or "Air Operated Sreps"?
> > > As my old pappy said, "What ain't there, cant break".
> > > Some costs are less, such as my yearly DMV fee of $67,(even
here
> in
> > > the Land of Arnold), and lower Insurance costs, and it afforded
> me
> > > my unique method of financing, One Payment & walk away with the
> > Pink
> > > Slip..
> > > But make no mistake, repairs may be necessary, and as Jeff
Miller
> > > said, "Pay Now, oor Pay Later".
> > > The old coaches are much simpler and therefore easier (read
> Cheaper)
> > > to maintain.
> > > The great thing about Bluebirds is that they practically never
> wear
> > > out. A lot of the original items on our coach are still
working,
> > > while I imagine my old "Sticks & Staples Tioga is probably in
> that
> > > Big KOA in the Sky...
> > > We also like to visit the various RV dealers and look over the
> > > current crop.. It is real interesting to see the look on the
> > > salesmans face when he asks us if we have an RV and we
> reply, "Yes,
> > > a Bluebird". We are usually left alone after that......
> > > Jack Smith
> > > 1973FC31
> > > SoCal
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <mike.putz@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I also agree with everything I've read here. I own a 63
> Bluebird
> > > > conversion and just recently purchased a 78FC35. I choose
this
> > > bus
> > > > to upgrade to a diesel, leveling jacks, bigger generator,
> etc..
> > I
> > > > did not want air bags as I like to go off road often with a
> > > trailer
> > > > full of quads and dirt bikes. I wanted something tough with
> > > ground
> > > > clearance. I had the pleasure of driving my friends 90SP36
> from
> > > > Texas to Arizona not long ago. It was very nice, plush,
fancy,
> > > and
> > > > strong with the 300 HP Cat. However, it was just not for
me.
> So
> > > old
> > > > or new.. you can't go wrong with these busses. I'm a "bang-
for-
> > > buck"
> > > > kind of guy on a small budget so the FC's were perfect!
> > > > Just another 2 cents...
> > > >
> > > > Michael
> > > > 78FC35 "Putz'n Around"
> > > > Mesa, Az
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bubblerboy64"
>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Leroy, I think everything that has been said is on target.
> You
> > > > > certainly want the best that you can buy. No doubt the
later
> > > FC's
> > > > > are considerably improved and being newer should in theory
at
> > > least
> > > > > be in better condition. That being said there is always the
> > > debate
> > > > as
> > > > > to how much a guy should spend on an FC before he considers
a
> > > PT. I
> > > > > have never ridden in or experienced a late model FC but my
> > > thoughts
> > > > > are if I was going to spend upwards of 50K would I add to
it
> a
> > > > little
> > > > > (or a lot) and go with a PT. These are things you have to
> > > decide.
> > > > I
> > > > > was there a year ago and I am certain all of us would agree
> > that
> > > > you
> > > > > should invest in some travel and time to investigate a
number
> > of
> > > > > these coaches before you buy. I think personal preference
> and
> > > how
> > > > > you are going to use the coach are the critical things to
> > > > consider.
> > > > > I love my old 1973 but if I was intending to make a lot of
> long
> > > > runs
> > > > > I would consider moving up. My coach is also smallish for
> more
> > > then
> > > > > two. I consider it like buying any vehicle you want to
match
> it
> > > to
> > > > > your use as well as your pocket book.
> > > > > John Heckman
> > > > > central Pa
> > > > > 1973 FC
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In
WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "michaelhohnstein"
> > > > > > <MHOHNSTEIN@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "campingleroy"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have experience with quite a few mid 80s Birds,
buying
> > > > selling
> > > > > > > and "fixing on." My 83 rear bath suits the wife and I
> real
> > > > well
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > I wouldn't trade it for a triple slide anything. Not
> even
> > a
> > > > > Newell.
> > > > > > > That being said, I recommend 87 and newer FCs for those
> who
> > > > wish
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > get into a vintage Bird. The engine and accessories are
> > much
> > > > > easier
> > > > > > > to maintain due to improved design engine cover and
swing
> > > > > radiator.
> > > > > > > 86 and older are a pain to adjust valves on, and that's
> not
> > > > good.
> > > > > > > Moreover the 87 up has a charge air cooler and 300 hp.,
a
> > > very
> > > > > > > welcome feature when trying to get down the road. The
ZF
> > > trans
> > > > > is
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > great piece and features OD.
> > > > > > > My 83 has been upgraded to 87 specs. Fiberglass engine
> > > cover,
> > > > > > > charge air cooler and inlet air enhancements. The
> Allison
> > > is
> > > > > > backed
> > > > > > > by a drive line OD transmission in front of the Jake
> > > retarder.
> > > > > > > I was able to do all this 'stuff' to my Bird due the
line
> > of
> > > > work
> > > > > > > I'm in. Much easier to just pay a little more and get
> the
> > > > newer
> > > > > > > version, and it's all done for you.
> > > > > > > MH
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > My wife and I really like a lot of things about
vintage
> > > > birds,
> > > > > > > > including the safety, reliability, and durability. I
> > > think a
> > > > > mid
> > > > > > > 80s
> > > > > > > > FC would be about the best fit for us and our
budget.
> > The
> > > > one
> > > > > > > with a
> > > > > > > > double bed in the back, and 2 couches up front.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I dont mind tinkering and working on a lot of
> projects.
> > > Our
> > > > > > > current
> > > > > > > > coach is a 1989 Class C, I had to rebuild the entire
> cab
> > > over
> > > > > on
> > > > > > > that.
> > > > > > > > But I'm by no means a mechanic. I do consider myself
> to
> > > be
> > > > > very
> > > > > > > > mechanically inclined though. I can follow
directions
> > > really
> > > > > > > well, if
> > > > > > > > there are procedures on doing projects though. And
> based
> > > on
> > > > > what
> > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > know or believe things to cost, I can't afford to
have
> a
> > > > > mechanic
> > > > > > > do
> > > > > > > > every bit of maintenance these things need. The
> > > electrical
> > > > > > > problems
> > > > > > > > concern me much less than mechanical ones.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > My question is, should I steer away from these old
> > birds?
> > > Is
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > majority of the work something that an average person
> > > could
> > > > do
> > > > > > > given
> > > > > > > > patience and research/reading? Don't want to get
> myself
> > > in
> > > > > over
> > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > head.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I would DEFINATELY want to hire someone to look at a
> unit
> > > > > before
> > > > > > > > purchasing, to make sure I understood what I was
> getting
> > > > myself
> > > > > > > into.
> > > > > > > > If I get to that point, I'll be asking here for
> > > > recommendations
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > > who.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would just say this and that is buy from a person who
> loves
> > > his
> > > > > old
> > > > > > coach! Pay a little bit more but then most of the work
has
> > > been
> > > > > done.
> > > > > > As far as Vlv adjustment that only happens every 50,000
> miles
> > > and
> > > > > my
> > > > > > coach has only had that done two times. Yep and beside my
> old
> > > > coach
> > > > > > gets 10 mpg (1978) and the newer ones well we all know
they
> > > were
> > > > > made
> > > > > > for cheap fuel prices in mind. Jon
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[dwalks@...]

I have a great 84FC35 for sale it is listed onthe vintage birds web site.

It needs no work. Everything works from the musical horn to themusical door bell.Useditthree times in the last 3 years. April 07 from Kansas City to Duncan OK and back, nothing broke. Nascar track , in Kansas,in Oct, boondock for 3 days. Then in May of this year from K.C. to Austin TX and back again ran great. Reason for selling , not used enough.

Ralph in Duncan knows this bird.

I can send pictures.

Dennis Walker

cramalot-inn

cell.816-519-7800

---

Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.

[bumpersbird]

The labor rates are the same no matter what year coach you buy, and
they can add up FAST! Just keep hunting and you'll find a great coach
that isn't in need of a full frame up restoration. Leroy is correct,
if your fixing up an old coach paint is expensive, so try and find
one with good paint. Good paint is an indicator of the care and
attention that was given to the coach. That's not written in stone
but it is generally true. Tires that are not over a few years old
same rule. These are general maintainance items. If the owner keep up
with these items chances are the coach is going to be a good starter.
It is a buyers market now, so take some time and buy with your head
and not your heart. I took me years to find my first coach, and even
in todays market I paid less for it 2 1/2 years ago than it's worth
today at wholesale.

Kurt Horvath
95 PT-42 WLWB
10AC




--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bubblerboy64"
wrote:
>
> Just to agree with Leroy. When looking at coaches last year I did
> see several which would have needed tires, batteries and a paint
job.
> I did not even make an offer on something in that class. It only
> insults the seller and gets you no where. I remember one which was
> for sale buy a nice older gentleman who hated to sell his coach. He
> was asking $13,000. The tires, well, I wouldn't have driven around
> the block on them. The paint was ruff and the rest of the coach was
> average. Who knows what the coach was like underneath. I really
> don't think I would have taken it if he would have given it to me,
> but he did eventually sell it. For what I have no clue. You will
be
> able to find a decent FC for $25K and you should be able to find a
> real gem for $30k (in my opinion) remember they are only worth what
> the seller and buyer agree on.
> John Heckman
> central Pa
> 1973 FC
> >
> > Leroy, I think your on the right path. Certainly there are
> coaches
> > out there that meet your "wish list". Keep in mind that you are a
> lot
> > better buying a "good" one and spending a little more up front
then
> > buying one that needs a lot of work. Look for one that was
driven
> > and maintained and that shows that it was obviously loved. Keep
in
> > mind that you will spend additional money on the coach to make it
> > yours. I paid just under 20K for my 1973 and I have added at
least
> > another 10K to that. I have none a fair amount that didn't have
to
> > be done but what I wanted to do to make it the way I wanted it.
> That
> > is my personality. Try to buy one with recent tires and
batteries
> or
> > factor that into the negotiation. Old tires (ten years max) are
> not
> > to be trusted even if the tread is new. It takes big bucks to
> paint
> > a BB so if the paint is not good and that bothers you consider
> that.
> > So good luck and let us know what you are looking at and we will
no
> > doubt give our opinions.
> > John Heckman
> > central Pa
> > 1973 FC
> > > Wow tons of great feedback and fast! This forum definately
seems
> > > very helpful, and really helps me feel more comfortable about
> > making
> > > a step toward an older coach, and knowing i have a team to help
> me
> > > figure things out.
> > >
> > > I think that I'd be better at actually doing the
> > repairs/maintenance
> > > than troubleshooting problems at least on the mechancial stuff,
> > until
> > > I got to know things a bit more.
> > >
> > > A bit more background on us. We're late 20s, early 30s, with 2
> > girls
> > > under 3 years old. We currently travel about 1 big trip a year
> and
> > 2-
> > > 4 more smaller weekend trips. We expect that will increase
again
> > as
> > > the girls get older (read out of diapers and crib).
> > >
> > > I work in IT with computers for a living, and have done nearly
> > every
> > > type of work around the house and my RV, with only limited
> > mechanical
> > > work.
> > >
> > > I think we'd like an 83 or 84 FC based on all i read. They
have
> > the
> > > power of the Turbo, and also air suspension, but still aren't
too
> > > pricey. We want the diesel engine and the diesel generator.
We
> > want
> > > the one with twin couches up front, and a double bed in the
back.
> > >
> > > I dont have an exact budget at the moment. Obviously the less
I
> > > could spend the better, but I want the most reliable coach I
can
> > get
> > > too. I would like to spend near $20K.
> > >
> > > Thanks for all the great feedback. I had heard a lot of good
> stuff
> > > about this place from the RV.NET group, and it definately seems
> > like
> > > you've got a great group.
> > >
> > >
> > > We actually went and checked out an 83 this weekend. Floor
plan
> > was
> > > cool, perfect. But it left me with a lot of questions. Here's
> an
> > > excerpt from what I wrote on RV.NEt about it.
> > >
> > > "Late last night I found a deal on an old 1983 Wanderlodge an
> hour
> > or
> > > so south of me. We've been thinking for a few years that it
would
> > be
> > > very nice to have an old Bird. This deal seemed too good to be
> > true,
> > > $12,000. I'd never personally been inside a vintage bird, so i
> > > figured now is a good time to go see if they'd really be a good
> fit
> > > for us. The seller was selling on behalf of his brother and
> didn't
> > > know much about it.
> > >
> > > Engine started right up, but the smell of diesel was extremely
> > strong
> > > outside the front end, passenger side. Is that normal?
> > >
> > > The diesel genset didn't want to start up, he thought it was
fed
> by
> > a
> > > separate tank, but I dont think that is the case.
> > >
> > > Outside was rough, definately needed a new coat of paint.
Inside
> > was
> > > decent. Was nice being in an older unit with not a signle sign
of
> a
> > > leak. Much of the uppolstry needed to be replaced, couchs,
> chairs,
> > > dinnettes. And the carpet was ugh-riginal.
> > >
> > > 12V electrical system was great for lights, but nearly
everything
> > on
> > > the dash was dead. Gauges seemed to work, but switches were all
> > > useless. A/C, Heat etc didnt work.
> > >
> > > As for the 110V stuff, I couldn't test with no genset and no
> shore
> > > power.
> > >
> > > Awnings needed some help, but I was about done by the time I
got
> to
> > > them, that I didn't even check them out.
> > >
> > > Man, this thing could be nice to someone who wants to put a bit
> of
> > > time into it, just not sure I'm really up to it at this point
in
> > the
> > > game.
> > >
> > > Question is, should I lowball this guy? And see if I can get it
> at
> > a
> > > price where I could pay someone else to fix the broken "stuff"?
> Any
> > > factor sound like sign of something much worse?
> > > "
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jack & Donna Smith"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Old Bird or Newer?? Well, as some say, "You Pays Your Money,
> and
> > > > Takes Your Choice"...
> > > > Our 1973 Bird lacks some of the items that are standard on
> Newer
> > > > coaches, but also lack some of the headaches..What is
> a "Sporlian
> > > > Valve", anyway, or "Air Operated Sreps"?
> > > > As my old pappy said, "What ain't there, cant break".
> > > > Some costs are less, such as my yearly DMV fee of $67,(even
> here
> > in
> > > > the Land of Arnold), and lower Insurance costs, and it
afforded
> > me
> > > > my unique method of financing, One Payment & walk away with
the
> > > Pink
> > > > Slip..
> > > > But make no mistake, repairs may be necessary, and as Jeff
> Miller
> > > > said, "Pay Now, oor Pay Later".
> > > > The old coaches are much simpler and therefore easier (read
> > Cheaper)
> > > > to maintain.
> > > > The great thing about Bluebirds is that they practically
never
> > wear
> > > > out. A lot of the original items on our coach are still
> working,
> > > > while I imagine my old "Sticks & Staples Tioga is probably in
> > that
> > > > Big KOA in the Sky...
> > > > We also like to visit the various RV dealers and look over
the
> > > > current crop.. It is real interesting to see the look on the
> > > > salesmans face when he asks us if we have an RV and we
> > reply, "Yes,
> > > > a Bluebird". We are usually left alone after that......
> > > > Jack Smith
> > > > 1973FC31
> > > > SoCal
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Michael"
<mike.putz@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I also agree with everything I've read here. I own a 63
> > Bluebird
> > > > > conversion and just recently purchased a 78FC35. I choose
> this
> > > > bus
> > > > > to upgrade to a diesel, leveling jacks, bigger generator,
> > etc..
> > > I
> > > > > did not want air bags as I like to go off road often with a
> > > > trailer
> > > > > full of quads and dirt bikes. I wanted something tough
with
> > > > ground
> > > > > clearance. I had the pleasure of driving my friends 90SP36
> > from
> > > > > Texas to Arizona not long ago. It was very nice, plush,
> fancy,
> > > > and
> > > > > strong with the 300 HP Cat. However, it was just not for
> me.
> > So
> > > > old
> > > > > or new.. you can't go wrong with these busses. I'm a "bang-
> for-
> > > > buck"
> > > > > kind of guy on a small budget so the FC's were perfect!
> > > > > Just another 2 cents...
> > > > >
> > > > > Michael
> > > > > 78FC35 "Putz'n Around"
> > > > > Mesa, Az
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bubblerboy64"
> >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Leroy, I think everything that has been said is on
target.
> > You
> > > > > > certainly want the best that you can buy. No doubt the
> later
> > > > FC's
> > > > > > are considerably improved and being newer should in
theory
> at
> > > > least
> > > > > > be in better condition. That being said there is always
the
> > > > debate
> > > > > as
> > > > > > to how much a guy should spend on an FC before he
considers
> a
> > > > PT. I
> > > > > > have never ridden in or experienced a late model FC but
my
> > > > thoughts
> > > > > > are if I was going to spend upwards of 50K would I add to
> it
> > a
> > > > > little
> > > > > > (or a lot) and go with a PT. These are things you have
to
> > > > decide.
> > > > > I
> > > > > > was there a year ago and I am certain all of us would
agree
> > > that
> > > > > you
> > > > > > should invest in some travel and time to investigate a
> number
> > > of
> > > > > > these coaches before you buy. I think personal
preference
> > and
> > > > how
> > > > > > you are going to use the coach are the critical things to
> > > > > consider.
> > > > > > I love my old 1973 but if I was intending to make a lot
of
> > long
> > > > > runs
> > > > > > I would consider moving up. My coach is also smallish for
> > more
> > > > then
> > > > > > two. I consider it like buying any vehicle you want to
> match
> > it
> > > > to
> > > > > > your use as well as your pocket book.
> > > > > > John Heckman
> > > > > > central Pa
> > > > > > 1973 FC
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In
> WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "michaelhohnstein"
> > > > > > > <MHOHNSTEIN@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In
WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "campingleroy"
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have experience with quite a few mid 80s Birds,
> buying
> > > > > selling
> > > > > > > > and "fixing on." My 83 rear bath suits the wife and
I
> > real
> > > > > well
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > I wouldn't trade it for a triple slide anything. Not
> > even
> > > a
> > > > > > Newell.
> > > > > > > > That being said, I recommend 87 and newer FCs for
those
> > who
> > > > > wish
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > get into a vintage Bird. The engine and accessories
are
> > > much
> > > > > > easier
> > > > > > > > to maintain due to improved design engine cover and
> swing
> > > > > > radiator.
> > > > > > > > 86 and older are a pain to adjust valves on, and
that's
> > not
> > > > > good.
> > > > > > > > Moreover the 87 up has a charge air cooler and 300
hp.,
> a
> > > > very
> > > > > > > > welcome feature when trying to get down the road.
The
> ZF
> > > > trans
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > great piece and features OD.
> > > > > > > > My 83 has been upgraded to 87 specs. Fiberglass
engine
> > > > cover,
> > > > > > > > charge air cooler and inlet air enhancements. The
> > Allison
> > > > is
> > > > > > > backed
> > > > > > > > by a drive line OD transmission in front of the Jake
> > > > retarder.
> > > > > > > > I was able to do all this 'stuff' to my Bird due the
> line
> > > of
> > > > > work
> > > > > > > > I'm in. Much easier to just pay a little more and
get
> > the
> > > > > newer
> > > > > > > > version, and it's all done for you.
> > > > > > > > MH
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > My wife and I really like a lot of things about
> vintage
> > > > > birds,
> > > > > > > > > including the safety, reliability, and durability.
I
> > > > think a
> > > > > > mid
> > > > > > > > 80s
> > > > > > > > > FC would be about the best fit for us and our
> budget.
> > > The
> > > > > one
> > > > > > > > with a
> > > > > > > > > double bed in the back, and 2 couches up front.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I dont mind tinkering and working on a lot of
> > projects.
> > > > Our
> > > > > > > > current
> > > > > > > > > coach is a 1989 Class C, I had to rebuild the
entire
> > cab
> > > > over
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > that.
> > > > > > > > > But I'm by no means a mechanic. I do consider
myself
> > to
> > > > be
> > > > > > very
> > > > > > > > > mechanically inclined though. I can follow
> directions
> > > > really
> > > > > > > > well, if
> > > > > > > > > there are procedures on doing projects though. And
> > based
> > > > on
> > > > > > what
> > > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > know or believe things to cost, I can't afford to
> have
> > a
> > > > > > mechanic
> > > > > > > > do
> > > > > > > > > every bit of maintenance these things need. The
> > > > electrical
> > > > > > > > problems
> > > > > > > > > concern me much less than mechanical ones.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > My question is, should I steer away from these old
> > > birds?
> > > > Is
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > majority of the work something that an average
person
> > > > could
> > > > > do
> > > > > > > > given
> > > > > > > > > patience and research/reading? Don't want to get
> > myself
> > > > in
> > > > > > over
> > > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > > head.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I would DEFINATELY want to hire someone to look at
a
> > unit
> > > > > > before
> > > > > > > > > purchasing, to make sure I understood what I was
> > getting
> > > > > myself
> > > > > > > > into.
> > > > > > > > > If I get to that point, I'll be asking here for
> > > > > recommendations
> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > who.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I would just say this and that is buy from a person who
> > loves
> > > > his
> > > > > > old
> > > > > > > coach! Pay a little bit more but then most of the work
> has
> > > > been
> > > > > > done.
> > > > > > > As far as Vlv adjustment that only happens every 50,000
> > miles
> > > > and
> > > > > > my
> > > > > > > coach has only had that done two times. Yep and beside
my
> > old
> > > > > coach
> > > > > > > gets 10 mpg (1978) and the newer ones well we all know
> they
> > > > were
> > > > > > made
> > > > > > > for cheap fuel prices in mind. Jon
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[Jack & Donna Smith]

As one with practical experience with a "Vintage" Bird, I second the
idea of staying away from a coach that needs a lot, or even some
work.
You will have enough work "sprucing up" and making the coach "Yours"
and you don't want any extra tasks, if possible.
Although these things are called "RVs", they really are not, as you
will soon find out when you take one to a regular RV shop for much
more than awning replacment, or new floormats..
In the few cases I have had to tow the coach, I have always tried to
impress on them that this is a BIG 31' BUS, and the front axel is
sone 5 feet in back of the front bumper. When the tow truck
arrives, the driver usually says, "I should of Brought our Big
Truck"!
The rule of thumb is that you should have a fund of some $10K to
cover repairs, fix-ups, and other items. Tires can run $3 to 4
hundred each.
I think an 83 or so would be a good starting point, with the Turbo
and Air Bags.
Also, if you live in one of those "Wunnerful" HOA's, be prepared to
hear, "Get that big ugly thing out of here", and add in $150 a month
or so to store it elsewhere, and remember that usually you cant work
on it or wash it at the storage lot.
But, Welcome to the world of Wanderlodges and all the quality people
you will meet in "The Family"....
Jack Smith
1973FC31
SoCal.



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "campingleroy"
wrote:
>
> Wow tons of great feedback and fast! This forum definately seems
> very helpful, and really helps me feel more comfortable about
making
> a step toward an older coach, and knowing i have a team to help me
> figure things out.
>
> I think that I'd be better at actually doing the
repairs/maintenance
> than troubleshooting problems at least on the mechancial stuff,
until
> I got to know things a bit more.
>
> A bit more background on us. We're late 20s, early 30s, with 2
girls
> under 3 years old. We currently travel about 1 big trip a year
and 2-
> 4 more smaller weekend trips. We expect that will increase again
as
> the girls get older (read out of diapers and crib).
>
> I work in IT with computers for a living, and have done nearly
every
> type of work around the house and my RV, with only limited
mechanical
> work.
>
> I think we'd like an 83 or 84 FC based on all i read. They have
the
> power of the Turbo, and also air suspension, but still aren't too
> pricey. We want the diesel engine and the diesel generator. We
want
> the one with twin couches up front, and a double bed in the back.
>
> I dont have an exact budget at the moment. Obviously the less I
> could spend the better, but I want the most reliable coach I can
get
> too. I would like to spend near $20K.
>
> Thanks for all the great feedback. I had heard a lot of good
stuff
> about this place from the RV.NET group, and it definately seems
like
> you've got a great group.
>
>
> We actually went and checked out an 83 this weekend. Floor plan
was
> cool, perfect. But it left me with a lot of questions. Here's an
> excerpt from what I wrote on RV.NEt about it.
>
> "Late last night I found a deal on an old 1983 Wanderlodge an hour
or
> so south of me. We've been thinking for a few years that it would
be
> very nice to have an old Bird. This deal seemed too good to be
true,
> $12,000. I'd never personally been inside a vintage bird, so i
> figured now is a good time to go see if they'd really be a good
fit
> for us. The seller was selling on behalf of his brother and didn't
> know much about it.
>
> Engine started right up, but the smell of diesel was extremely
strong
> outside the front end, passenger side. Is that normal?
>
> The diesel genset didn't want to start up, he thought it was fed
by a
> separate tank, but I dont think that is the case.
>
> Outside was rough, definately needed a new coat of paint. Inside
was
> decent. Was nice being in an older unit with not a signle sign of
a
> leak. Much of the uppolstry needed to be replaced, couchs, chairs,
> dinnettes. And the carpet was ugh-riginal.
>
> 12V electrical system was great for lights, but nearly everything
on
> the dash was dead. Gauges seemed to work, but switches were all
> useless. A/C, Heat etc didnt work.
>
> As for the 110V stuff, I couldn't test with no genset and no shore
> power.
>
> Awnings needed some help, but I was about done by the time I got
to
> them, that I didn't even check them out.
>
> Man, this thing could be nice to someone who wants to put a bit of
> time into it, just not sure I'm really up to it at this point in
the
> game.
>
> Question is, should I lowball this guy? And see if I can get it at
a
> price where I could pay someone else to fix the broken "stuff"?
Any
> factor sound like sign of something much worse?
> "
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jack & Donna Smith"
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Old Bird or Newer?? Well, as some say, "You Pays Your Money,
and
> > Takes Your Choice"...
> > Our 1973 Bird lacks some of the items that are standard on Newer
> > coaches, but also lack some of the headaches..What is
a "Sporlian
> > Valve", anyway, or "Air Operated Sreps"?
> > As my old pappy said, "What ain't there, cant break".
> > Some costs are less, such as my yearly DMV fee of $67,(even here
in
> > the Land of Arnold), and lower Insurance costs, and it afforded
me
> > my unique method of financing, One Payment & walk away with the
> Pink
> > Slip..
> > But make no mistake, repairs may be necessary, and as Jeff
Miller
> > said, "Pay Now, oor Pay Later".
> > The old coaches are much simpler and therefore easier (read
Cheaper)
> > to maintain.
> > The great thing about Bluebirds is that they practically never
wear
> > out. A lot of the original items on our coach are still
working,
> > while I imagine my old "Sticks & Staples Tioga is probably in
that
> > Big KOA in the Sky...
> > We also like to visit the various RV dealers and look over the
> > current crop.. It is real interesting to see the look on the
> > salesmans face when he asks us if we have an RV and we
reply, "Yes,
> > a Bluebird". We are usually left alone after that......
> > Jack Smith
> > 1973FC31
> > SoCal
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <mike.putz@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I also agree with everything I've read here. I own a 63
Bluebird
> > > conversion and just recently purchased a 78FC35. I choose
this
> > bus
> > > to upgrade to a diesel, leveling jacks, bigger generator,
etc..
> I
> > > did not want air bags as I like to go off road often with a
> > trailer
> > > full of quads and dirt bikes. I wanted something tough with
> > ground
> > > clearance. I had the pleasure of driving my friends 90SP36
from
> > > Texas to Arizona not long ago. It was very nice, plush,
fancy,
> > and
> > > strong with the 300 HP Cat. However, it was just not for me.
So
> > old
> > > or new.. you can't go wrong with these busses. I'm a "bang-
for-
> > buck"
> > > kind of guy on a small budget so the FC's were perfect!
> > > Just another 2 cents...
> > >
> > > Michael
> > > 78FC35 "Putz'n Around"
> > > Mesa, Az
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bubblerboy64"

> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Leroy, I think everything that has been said is on target.
You
> > > > certainly want the best that you can buy. No doubt the
later
> > FC's
> > > > are considerably improved and being newer should in theory
at
> > least
> > > > be in better condition. That being said there is always the
> > debate
> > > as
> > > > to how much a guy should spend on an FC before he considers
a
> > PT. I
> > > > have never ridden in or experienced a late model FC but my
> > thoughts
> > > > are if I was going to spend upwards of 50K would I add to it
a
> > > little
> > > > (or a lot) and go with a PT. These are things you have to
> > decide.
> > > I
> > > > was there a year ago and I am certain all of us would agree
> that
> > > you
> > > > should invest in some travel and time to investigate a
number
> of
> > > > these coaches before you buy. I think personal preference
and
> > how
> > > > you are going to use the coach are the critical things to
> > > consider.
> > > > I love my old 1973 but if I was intending to make a lot of
long
> > > runs
> > > > I would consider moving up. My coach is also smallish for
more
> > then
> > > > two. I consider it like buying any vehicle you want to match
it
> > to
> > > > your use as well as your pocket book.
> > > > John Heckman
> > > > central Pa
> > > > 1973 FC
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In
WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "michaelhohnstein"
> > > > > <MHOHNSTEIN@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "campingleroy"
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have experience with quite a few mid 80s Birds, buying
> > > selling
> > > > > > and "fixing on." My 83 rear bath suits the wife and I
real
> > > well
> > > > > and
> > > > > > I wouldn't trade it for a triple slide anything. Not
even
> a
> > > > Newell.
> > > > > > That being said, I recommend 87 and newer FCs for those
who
> > > wish
> > > > to
> > > > > > get into a vintage Bird. The engine and accessories are
> much
> > > > easier
> > > > > > to maintain due to improved design engine cover and
swing
> > > > radiator.
> > > > > > 86 and older are a pain to adjust valves on, and that's
not
> > > good.
> > > > > > Moreover the 87 up has a charge air cooler and 300 hp.,
a
> > very
> > > > > > welcome feature when trying to get down the road. The
ZF
> > trans
> > > > is
> > > > > a
> > > > > > great piece and features OD.
> > > > > > My 83 has been upgraded to 87 specs. Fiberglass engine
> > cover,
> > > > > > charge air cooler and inlet air enhancements. The
Allison
> > is
> > > > > backed
> > > > > > by a drive line OD transmission in front of the Jake
> > retarder.
> > > > > > I was able to do all this 'stuff' to my Bird due the
line
> of
> > > work
> > > > > > I'm in. Much easier to just pay a little more and get
the
> > > newer
> > > > > > version, and it's all done for you.
> > > > > > MH
> > > > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My wife and I really like a lot of things about
vintage
> > > birds,
> > > > > > > including the safety, reliability, and durability. I
> > think a
> > > > mid
> > > > > > 80s
> > > > > > > FC would be about the best fit for us and our budget.
> The
> > > one
> > > > > > with a
> > > > > > > double bed in the back, and 2 couches up front.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I dont mind tinkering and working on a lot of
projects.
> > Our
> > > > > > current
> > > > > > > coach is a 1989 Class C, I had to rebuild the entire
cab
> > over
> > > > on
> > > > > > that.
> > > > > > > But I'm by no means a mechanic. I do consider myself
to
> > be
> > > > very
> > > > > > > mechanically inclined though. I can follow directions
> > really
> > > > > > well, if
> > > > > > > there are procedures on doing projects though. And
based
> > on
> > > > what
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > know or believe things to cost, I can't afford to have
a
> > > > mechanic
> > > > > > do
> > > > > > > every bit of maintenance these things need. The
> > electrical
> > > > > > problems
> > > > > > > concern me much less than mechanical ones.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My question is, should I steer away from these old
> birds?
> > Is
> > > > the
> > > > > > > majority of the work something that an average person
> > could
> > > do
> > > > > > given
> > > > > > > patience and research/reading? Don't want to get
myself
> > in
> > > > over
> > > > > > my
> > > > > > > head.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I would DEFINATELY want to hire someone to look at a
unit
> > > > before
> > > > > > > purchasing, to make sure I understood what I was
getting
> > > myself
> > > > > > into.
> > > > > > > If I get to that point, I'll be asking here for
> > > recommendations
> > > > > on
> > > > > > who.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I would just say this and that is buy from a person who
loves
> > his
> > > > old
> > > > > coach! Pay a little bit more but then most of the work has
> > been
> > > > done.
> > > > > As far as Vlv adjustment that only happens every 50,000
miles
> > and
> > > > my
> > > > > coach has only had that done two times. Yep and beside my
old
> > > coach
> > > > > gets 10 mpg (1978) and the newer ones well we all know
they
> > were
> > > > made
> > > > > for cheap fuel prices in mind. Jon
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>