Series 60, DDEC 4, Check engine light

[David Brady]

Folks,

On my way up Vale Pass, near the Eisenhower Tunnel, my check engine
light came
on and my DDEC displayed:

PID 103, MID 128, FMI 1

Which decodes to "turbo speed sensor low". I'll take it to the local
Detroit Service
Center here in Denver, but in the meantime, does anyone have an idea of
what this
could be?

Thanks,
David Brady
'02 LXi, CO


--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1674 - Release Date: 9/16/2008 8:15
AM

[Gregory OConnor]

high would be a problem (Why use high and low and not fast and
slow??) low might mean an injector is pissing and the turbo is
spinning slow in relation to fuel??
Are you one of those guys in love with the sound of the Jake? they
make heat and stress.
the other thing is how does Ddec account for the thin air up
there, ???

surf around on this site for forum threads on series 60 under
transportation trucks and busses
http://www.answerbag.com/

Greg

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, David Brady
wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> On my way up Vale Pass, near the Eisenhower Tunnel, my check
engine
> light came
> on and my DDEC displayed:
>
> PID 103, MID 128, FMI 1
>
> Which decodes to "turbo speed sensor low". I'll take it to the
local
> Detroit Service
> Center here in Denver, but in the meantime, does anyone have an
idea of
> what this
> could be?
>
> Thanks,
> David Brady
> '02 LXi, CO
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1674 - Release Date:
9/16/2008 8:15 AM
>

[David Brady]

It may mean high, or overspeed. The flash code associated
with the message is 64 which my ddec 4 manual translates
to "turbo overspeed".

The "turbo speed sensor low" message was read from the
J1939 port. I think the "low" portion of the message means
voltage low, and low voltage in this case corresponds to turbo
overspeed, which may be a problem. In high altitudes, the turbo
can make up for thin air by spinning faster (to a degree). I don't
think my turbo has a waste gate, so I'm not sure what would
prevent it form overspeeding.

I might be in love with the sound of the jake...

David

Gregory OConnor wrote:
>
> high would be a problem (Why use high and low and not fast and
> slow??) low might mean an injector is pissing and the turbo is
> spinning slow in relation to fuel??
> Are you one of those guys in love with the sound of the Jake? they
> make heat and stress.
> the other thing is how does Ddec account for the thin air up
> there, ???
>
> surf around on this site for forum threads on series 60 under
> transportation trucks and busses
> http://www.answerba g.com/ <http://www.answerbag.com/>
>
> Greg
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com
> , David Brady
> wrote:
> >
> > Folks,
> >
> > On my way up Vale Pass, near the Eisenhower Tunnel, my check
> engine
> > light came
> > on and my DDEC displayed:
> >
> > PID 103, MID 128, FMI 1
> >
> > Which decodes to "turbo speed sensor low". I'll take it to the
> local
> > Detroit Service
> > Center here in Denver, but in the meantime, does anyone have an
> idea of
> > what this
> > could be?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > David Brady
> > '02 LXi, CO
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG.
> > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1674 - Release Date:
> 9/16/2008 8:15 AM
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1674 - Release Date: 9/16/2008
8:15 AM
>



--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1674 - Release Date: 9/16/2008 8:15
AM

[David Brady]

Greg,

Do you think the turbo overspeed could have happened while
under jake brake. It all happened pretty fast, but I'm almost
certain that the condition occurred on a down hill section.
When using the jake, I can achieve 15 psi of turbo boost,
which is quite a bit lower than the 28 psi I get under full power.
I wonder if it's possible for the turbo to spin faster under
jake.

David Brady
'02 LXi, CO

David Brady wrote:
>
> It may mean high, or overspeed. The flash code associated
> with the message is 64 which my ddec 4 manual translates
> to "turbo overspeed".
>
> The "turbo speed sensor low" message was read from the
> J1939 port. I think the "low" portion of the message means
> voltage low, and low voltage in this case corresponds to turbo
> overspeed, which may be a problem. In high altitudes, the turbo
> can make up for thin air by spinning faster (to a degree). I don't
> think my turbo has a waste gate, so I'm not sure what would
> prevent it form overspeeding.
>
> I might be in love with the sound of the jake...
>
> David
>
> Gregory OConnor wrote:
> >
> > high would be a problem (Why use high and low and not fast and
> > slow??) low might mean an injector is pissing and the turbo is
> > spinning slow in relation to fuel??
> > Are you one of those guys in love with the sound of the Jake? they
> > make heat and stress.
> > the other thing is how does Ddec account for the thin air up
> > there, ???
> >
> > surf around on this site for forum threads on series 60 under
> > transportation trucks and busses
> > http://www.answerba g.com/ <http://www.answerbag.com/
> <http://www.answerbag.com/>>
> >
> > Greg
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com
> > , David Brady
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Folks,
> > >
> > > On my way up Vale Pass, near the Eisenhower Tunnel, my check
> > engine
> > > light came
> > > on and my DDEC displayed:
> > >
> > > PID 103, MID 128, FMI 1
> > >
> > > Which decodes to "turbo speed sensor low". I'll take it to the
> > local
> > > Detroit Service
> > > Center here in Denver, but in the meantime, does anyone have an
> > idea of
> > > what this
> > > could be?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > David Brady
> > > '02 LXi, CO
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > > Checked by AVG.
> > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1674 - Release Date:
> > 9/16/2008 8:15 AM
> > >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG.
> > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1674 - Release Date:
> 9/16/2008 8:15 AM
> >
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1674 - Release Date:
> 9/16/2008 8:15 AM
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1674 - Release Date: 9/16/2008
8:15 AM
>



--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1674 - Release Date: 9/16/2008 8:15
AM

[Richard Gideon]

David: A quick search of the DDEC III/IV guide below will show
connector pinputs and sensor locations...if this will help great,
otherwise disregard.

http://www.ddcsn.com/cps/rde/xbcr/ddcsn/...-03-03.pdf

Dick Gideon
1989 35FC
Rolla, MO

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, David Brady
wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> On my way up Vale Pass, near the Eisenhower Tunnel, my check engine
> light came
> on and my DDEC displayed:
>
> PID 103, MID 128, FMI 1
>
> Which decodes to "turbo speed sensor low". I'll take it to the
local
> Detroit Service
> Center here in Denver, but in the meantime, does anyone have an
idea of
> what this
> could be?
>
> Thanks,
> David Brady
> '02 LXi, CO
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1674 - Release Date:
9/16/2008 8:15 AM
>

[Kurt Horvath]

These manuals may help

http://www.detroitdiesel.com/Support/On-
Highway/Manuals/Application_and_Installation/Series_60/Series_60_2007_
AI_7SA717.pdf

http://www.detroitdiesel.com/Support/On-
Highway/Manuals/Application_and_Installation/

Kurt Horvath
95 PT-42
10AC





--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Gideon"
wrote:
>
> David: A quick search of the DDEC III/IV guide below will show
> connector pinputs and sensor locations...if this will help great,
> otherwise disregard.
>
> http://www.ddcsn.com/cps/rde/xbcr/ddcsn/...-03-03.pdf
>
> Dick Gideon
> 1989 35FC
> Rolla, MO
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, David Brady
> wrote:
> >
> > Folks,
> >
> > On my way up Vale Pass, near the Eisenhower Tunnel, my check
engine
> > light came
> > on and my DDEC displayed:
> >
> > PID 103, MID 128, FMI 1
> >
> > Which decodes to "turbo speed sensor low". I'll take it to the
> local
> > Detroit Service
> > Center here in Denver, but in the meantime, does anyone have an
> idea of
> > what this
> > could be?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > David Brady
> > '02 LXi, CO
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG.
> > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1674 - Release Date:
> 9/16/2008 8:15 AM
> >
>

[Gregory OConnor]

One of the great things about check engine warning systems and
computer control is the epa clean air thing (who do you think I'm
voting for?). One of the true problems is too much information. the
early s60's were considered junk because they spit out check engine
codes and that sent cautious operators(hypoMechanicalChondriacs) to
the shop to have things tweeked till there truly was a problem.
Every condition is not gonna let the engine operate within epa.

**If you are adding fuel to the mix of variables (uphill) and
somthing like the turbo is spinning too fast the computer can turn
down the amount of fuel it lets you send, therefor no need for a
code.
**If you are being push down a hill, loading the integrity of the
engine via the Jake to hold you back and there is too much heat,
speed (in relation to other variables), R's, boost, wrong mix of
fuel to air, bla bla bla. All the computer can do is complain (CHECK
ENGINE). there is no way it can control the stress caused by the
down hill. Newton and Einstine didnt agree how to explain it. Only
John Mayer made sence.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VBex8zbDRs

I would bet 300% more engines get burnt up decending a hill than
climbing. climbing they get hot, pull over, and call the tech.
decending they roll of the highway and call the bank.

For every action there is an equal and opposit reaction. stress the
bus up a 8% hill burn fuel and heat the air. the faster you go up
the more stress heat and fuel per mile. Blow down a hill up against
the Jake with Gravity as your fuel there is no stress and little
friction unless you want to control the speed. controlling a 35
mile per hour decend with the brakes only causes major heat at he
drums. 'brakes' and 'down shift trans' share the heat between the
tranny and the drums. decending at 35 with the 'jake' 'trans'
and 'brakes' more or less shares the heat between the trans, and
engine leaving the brakes for a back up with a controlable speed if
one of the 3 miles of wire fail and the engine shuts down and shifts
into N.

Greg


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, David Brady
wrote:
>
> Greg,
>
> Do you think the turbo overspeed could have happened while
> under jake brake. It all happened pretty fast, but I'm almost
> certain that the condition occurred on a down hill section.
> When using the jake, I can achieve 15 psi of turbo boost,
> which is quite a bit lower than the 28 psi I get under full power.
> I wonder if it's possible for the turbo to spin faster under
> jake.
>
> David Brady
> '02 LXi, CO
>
> David Brady wrote:
> >
> > It may mean high, or overspeed. The flash code associated
> > with the message is 64 which my ddec 4 manual translates
> > to "turbo overspeed".
> >
> > The "turbo speed sensor low" message was read from the
> > J1939 port. I think the "low" portion of the message means
> > voltage low, and low voltage in this case corresponds to turbo
> > overspeed, which may be a problem. In high altitudes, the turbo
> > can make up for thin air by spinning faster (to a degree). I
don't
> > think my turbo has a waste gate, so I'm not sure what would
> > prevent it form overspeeding.
> >
> > I might be in love with the sound of the jake...
> >
> > David
> >
> > Gregory OConnor wrote:
> > >
> > > high would be a problem (Why use high and low and not fast and
> > > slow??) low might mean an injector is pissing and the turbo is
> > > spinning slow in relation to fuel??
> > > Are you one of those guys in love with the sound of the Jake?
they
> > > make heat and stress.
> > > the other thing is how does Ddec account for the thin air up
> > > there, ???
> > >
> > > surf around on this site for forum threads on series 60 under
> > > transportation trucks and busses
> > > http://www.answerba g.com/ <http://www.answerbag.com/
> > <http://www.answerbag.com/>>
> > >
> > > Greg
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com
> > > , David Brady

> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Folks,
> > > >
> > > > On my way up Vale Pass, near the Eisenhower Tunnel, my check
> > > engine
> > > > light came
> > > > on and my DDEC displayed:
> > > >
> > > > PID 103, MID 128, FMI 1
> > > >
> > > > Which decodes to "turbo speed sensor low". I'll take it to
the
> > > local
> > > > Detroit Service
> > > > Center here in Denver, but in the meantime, does anyone have
an
> > > idea of
> > > > what this
> > > > could be?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > David Brady
> > > > '02 LXi, CO
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > > > Checked by AVG.
> > > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1674 - Release
Date:
> > > 9/16/2008 8:15 AM
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG.
> > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1674 - Release
Date:
> > 9/16/2008 8:15 AM
> > >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG.
> > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1674 - Release Date:
> > 9/16/2008 8:15 AM
> >
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-------
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG.
> > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1674 - Release Date:
9/16/2008 8:15 AM
> >
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1674 - Release Date:
9/16/2008 8:15 AM
>

[David Brady]

Thanks you'll for your help. I just spoke with an S-60 mechanic at
Transwest Trucks in Commerce City, Co. He said that the overspeed
happens when the intake runner is not building enough pressure to
limit turbo speed. Possible causes are:
1) bad intake manifold gasket,
2) leaky intake hose(s),
3) loose hose clamp(s),
4) leak in the intake charge cooler.

I'll pay them a visit this week for a diagnosis and will keep you posted.

Thanks,
David Brady
'02 LXi, CO

Kurt Horvath wrote:
>
>
>
> These manuals may help
>
> http://www.detroitd iesel.com/ Support/On-
> <http://www.detroitdiesel.com/Support/On->
> Highway/Manuals/ Application_ and_Installation /Series_60/ Series_60_
> 2007_
> AI_7SA717.pdf
>
> http://www.detroitd iesel.com/ Support/On-
> <http://www.detroitdiesel.com/Support/On->
> Highway/Manuals/ Application_ and_Installation /
>
> Kurt Horvath
> 95 PT-42
> 10AC
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com
> , "Richard Gideon"
> wrote:
> >
> > David: A quick search of the DDEC III/IV guide below will show
> > connector pinputs and sensor locations... if this will help great,
> > otherwise disregard.
> >
> > http://www.ddcsn. com/cps/rde/ xbcr/ddcsn/ 1-SECM-03- 03.pdf
> <http://www.ddcsn.com/cps/rde/xbcr/ddcsn/...-03-03.pdf>
> >
> > Dick Gideon
> > 1989 35FC
> > Rolla, MO
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com
> , David Brady
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Folks,
> > >
> > > On my way up Vale Pass, near the Eisenhower Tunnel, my check
> engine
> > > light came
> > > on and my DDEC displayed:
> > >
> > > PID 103, MID 128, FMI 1
> > >
> > > Which decodes to "turbo speed sensor low". I'll take it to the
> > local
> > > Detroit Service
> > > Center here in Denver, but in the meantime, does anyone have an
> > idea of
> > > what this
> > > could be?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > David Brady
> > > '02 LXi, CO
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > > Checked by AVG.
> > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1674 - Release Date:
> > 9/16/2008 8:15 AM
> > >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1674 - Release Date: 9/16/2008
8:15 AM
>



--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1674 - Release Date: 9/16/2008 8:15
AM

[David Brady]

I'm with you Greg. This is why I had the jake preselect changed
to 5th instead of 4th gear when I was in Utah. With a preselect
of 4th, the tranny caused the engine to speed to 2400 rpm when
it shifted into 4th, exceeding the 2100 rpm governed speed of
the engine. Now I choose when the downshift to 4th takes place
and the engine never over revs. My driving style is in line with
your description: slow descents leaving plenty of margin if the jake
fails.

The beauty of the '02 engine is that it's the last without any of the
EPA clean air stuff, including no EGR, and it has most of the S-60
mechanical upgrades developed over the last 15 years. My four
year ownership traveling 50K miles resulted in only 2 check engine
light events, both times for the "turbo overspeed" event.

David Brady
'02 LXi, CO

Gregory OConnor wrote:
>
> One of the great things about check engine warning systems and
> computer control is the epa clean air thing (who do you think I'm
> voting for?). One of the true problems is too much information. the
> early s60's were considered junk because they spit out check engine
> codes and that sent cautious operators(hypoMecha nicalChondriacs) to
> the shop to have things tweeked till there truly was a problem.
> Every condition is not gonna let the engine operate within epa.
>
> **If you are adding fuel to the mix of variables (uphill) and
> somthing like the turbo is spinning too fast the computer can turn
> down the amount of fuel it lets you send, therefor no need for a
> code.
> **If you are being push down a hill, loading the integrity of the
> engine via the Jake to hold you back and there is too much heat,
> speed (in relation to other variables), R's, boost, wrong mix of
> fuel to air, bla bla bla. All the computer can do is complain (CHECK
> ENGINE). there is no way it can control the stress caused by the
> down hill. Newton and Einstine didnt agree how to explain it. Only
> John Mayer made sence.
> http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=7VBex8zbDRs
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VBex8zbDRs>
>
> I would bet 300% more engines get burnt up decending a hill than
> climbing. climbing they get hot, pull over, and call the tech.
> decending they roll of the highway and call the bank.
>
> For every action there is an equal and opposit reaction. stress the
> bus up a 8% hill burn fuel and heat the air. the faster you go up
> the more stress heat and fuel per mile. Blow down a hill up against
> the Jake with Gravity as your fuel there is no stress and little
> friction unless you want to control the speed. controlling a 35
> mile per hour decend with the brakes only causes major heat at he
> drums. 'brakes' and 'down shift trans' share the heat between the
> tranny and the drums. decending at 35 with the 'jake' 'trans'
> and 'brakes' more or less shares the heat between the trans, and
> engine leaving the brakes for a back up with a controlable speed if
> one of the 3 miles of wire fail and the engine shuts down and shifts
> into N.
>
> Greg
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com
> , David Brady
> wrote:
> >
> > Greg,
> >
> > Do you think the turbo overspeed could have happened while
> > under jake brake. It all happened pretty fast, but I'm almost
> > certain that the condition occurred on a down hill section.
> > When using the jake, I can achieve 15 psi of turbo boost,
> > which is quite a bit lower than the 28 psi I get under full power.
> > I wonder if it's possible for the turbo to spin faster under
> > jake.
> >
> > David Brady
> > '02 LXi, CO
> >
> > David Brady wrote:
> > >
> > > It may mean high, or overspeed. The flash code associated
> > > with the message is 64 which my ddec 4 manual translates
> > > to "turbo overspeed".
> > >
> > > The "turbo speed sensor low" message was read from the
> > > J1939 port. I think the "low" portion of the message means
> > > voltage low, and low voltage in this case corresponds to turbo
> > > overspeed, which may be a problem. In high altitudes, the turbo
> > > can make up for thin air by spinning faster (to a degree). I
> don't
> > > think my turbo has a waste gate, so I'm not sure what would
> > > prevent it form overspeeding.
> > >
> > > I might be in love with the sound of the jake...
> > >
> > > David
> > >
> > > Gregory OConnor wrote:
> > > >
> > > > high would be a problem (Why use high and low and not fast and
> > > > slow??) low might mean an injector is pissing and the turbo is
> > > > spinning slow in relation to fuel??
> > > > Are you one of those guys in love with the sound of the Jake?
> they
> > > > make heat and stress.
> > > > the other thing is how does Ddec account for the thin air up
> > > > there, ???
> > > >
> > > > surf around on this site for forum threads on series 60 under
> > > > transportation trucks and busses
> > > > http://www.answerba g.com/ <http://www.answerba g.com/
> <http://www.answerbag.com/>
> > > <http://www.answerba g.com/ <http://www.answerbag.com/>>>
> > > >
> > > > Greg
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com
> > > > , David Brady
>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Folks,
> > > > >
> > > > > On my way up Vale Pass, near the Eisenhower Tunnel, my check
> > > > engine
> > > > > light came
> > > > > on and my DDEC displayed:
> > > > >
> > > > > PID 103, MID 128, FMI 1
> > > > >
> > > > > Which decodes to "turbo speed sensor low". I'll take it to
> the
> > > > local
> > > > > Detroit Service
> > > > > Center here in Denver, but in the meantime, does anyone have
> an
> > > > idea of
> > > > > what this
> > > > > could be?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > David Brady
> > > > > '02 LXi, CO
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > > > > Checked by AVG.
> > > > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1674 - Release
> Date:
> > > > 9/16/2008 8:15 AM
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> > > >
> > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > > Checked by AVG.
> > > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1674 - Release
> Date:
> > > 9/16/2008 8:15 AM
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > > Checked by AVG.
> > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1674 - Release Date:
> > > 9/16/2008 8:15 AM
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> -------
> > >
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG.
> > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1674 - Release Date:
> 9/16/2008 8:15 AM
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG.
> > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1674 - Release Date:
> 9/16/2008 8:15 AM
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1674 - Release Date: 9/16/2008
8:15 AM
>



--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1674 - Release Date: 9/16/2008 8:15
AM