Locking Tag Axle Tire

[randydupree]

it must! sure cleans it all up,as far as stuff being in the way! but,i guess
there is a few problems with some of that stuff,even though the DD's have had a
common rail for 50 years,,randydupree93wb
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Miller
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 9:51 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Locking Tag Axle Tire


Yeah port-effect on the 3208 sure leads to equal-length fuel lines.

Do you think that common-rail injection makes it a bit simpler?

- Jeff Miller


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, randydupree wrote:
> its all about timing jeff! uneven length hoses can cause a brake to
pull. hydraulic brakes can have unequal length lines with no
problem..but have you ever noticed on a 3208 diesel engine the
injector lines are all bent and twisted and seem too long? they are
realy equal length,all 8 lines the same,thats so the timing is right on
all cyl's..but,you know all that stuff already! randydupree93wb





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[randydupree]

well,they were a customer of mine,before they went by-by! it pays to know a
little about the coach.hell,i've forgotten most of it by now,they closed up 10
years ago...randydupree93wb
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Miller
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 9:54 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Locking Tag Axle Tire


Telling the Eagle 10 from the Eagle 15 made easy eh Randy? The bogie
wheels in front of the drive look so , ... different? I was always
amused by the 96" front cap on the 102" wide Eagle 10 also.

Still, a really nice-riding bus, if you can find one that isn't rusty
and source the parts (after Eagle went "out of business" twice, ...).

- Jeff Miller


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, randydupree
wrote:
> and another bit of trivia for you.a extra axle behind the drive
axle is a tag axle,when the extra axle is in front of the drive axle
its called a boogie axle.only the very newest eagles have a tag
axle,and i think they went to air ride also,at the very end of
production..randydupree93wb
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jeff Miller
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 9:16 PM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Locking Tag Axle Tire
>
>
> Although a thoughtful response, apples to oranges. Eagles don't
have
> airbag suspension, they are torsion bar, therefore asymmetrical
tag-
> axle pressures are more likely to cause this problem.
>
> - Jeff Miller
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Sevey & Carolyn
> Sevey" wrote:
> > -Hi All
> > Just a thought, on Eagle buses if the suspension system is
loading
> > the tag axle too lightly the light wheel will lock up all the
time.
> > Could your leveling valve be loading that wheel too lightly?
> > Dick & Carolyn Sevey 83fc 33 Pahrump, Nv.
>
>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jeff Miller]

The "port effect" in diesel injection (ex: 3208) is due to the metal
lines stretching and contracting delaying the injection pulse (like
water in a hose in an old Bugs Bunny cartoon), where in air brake
lines the delay is due to the compressed air pulse traveling along
the lines and the inertia of the air. You are correct Day that
eventually the pressure will be the same at all points in the line,
but line lengths and diameters will affect the time that this
pressure takes to reach the brake chamber at the end of the line.
Twice the line length will take roughly twice as long, just like
sound waves. This was one of the factors I had to take into
consideration when designing an air-brake system for the Futurliner
thanks largely to a generous donation from Bendix Brake.

Since the air leaves the relay valve and is split at the valve into
the two lines, the air pressure will also take the path of least
resistance (lower pressure) which can also cause one brake to get a
larger force momentarily due to a restriction, once the wheel stops
then inertia and the difference between dynamic friction and static
friction can retain the locked condition.

Have to consider all possibilities when asessing a problem, I'm still
thinking it's a mechanical problem though and hope he posts the
solution/findings.

- Jeff Miller


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, DAY8293A@C... wrote:
> THE LENGTH ON THE INJECTOR LINES ARE PRECISE DUE TO THE
TIMING FOR THE
> FUEL TO BE INJECTED INTO THE CYLINDER AT A PRECISE TIME. (WHICH OF
COURSE YOU
> KNEW)
> THE LENGTH OF THE AIR LINES ARE NOT PRECISE FOR "TIMING"
BECAUSE AIR
> PRESSURE SHOULD BE EQUAL THROUGHOUT THE LENGTH OF THE LINES. ALL
BRAKES ARE
> SUPPOSED TO APPLY AT THE SAME TIME. THE LEFT SIDE DOES NOT APPLY
BEFORE THE
> RIGHT SIDE. THE AIR PRESSURE WILL BE THE SAME AT ALL POINTS
THROUGHOUT THE LINE.
> IF A DIFFERENCE DOES OCCUR, IT WILL BE DUE TO OBSTRUCTIONS,
RESTRICTIONS, OR
> SOME OTHER PROBLEM. DAY JAX FLA 83 PT-40.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Dennis Nichols]

At 6/10/2005 08:54 AM, Jeff Miller wrote:
>Telling the Eagle 10 from the Eagle 15 made easy eh Randy? The bogie
>wheels in front of the drive look so , ... different? I was always
>amused by the 96" front cap on the 102" wide Eagle 10 also.
>
>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, randydupree
>wrote:
> > and another bit of trivia for you.a extra axle behind the drive
>axle is a tag axle,when the extra axle is in front of the drive axle
>its called a boogie axle.only the very newest eagles have a tag
>axle,and i think they went to air ride also,at the very end of
>production..randydupree93wb

The Model 01 Eagles had the tag axle trailing. The Model 05, introduced
mid- to late-60s, swapped the axles around. As far as I was aware, all
3-axle Eagles from the Model 05 through the 20 had the same axle order. Was
the reversion to the trailing tag axle a part of the production by the
re-incarnated company?

Also, I think the only common 102" wide Eagle was the Model 15.

--
Dennis Nichols, been there, driven that
'88 WB40 XXV
"Priscilla"


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[randydupree]

ohh boy! depends on wether it had round tail lights,or square,then you need to
know if it was built before 1970,or after.all of this depends on if its really
an eagle,or a converted coach,those converters can make $300,000 look just like
an eagle. its hard to tell just what year it is,,randydupree93wb
----- Original Message -----
From: erniecarpet@...
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Locking Tag Axle Tire


on our way to the rally here in sanger, we saw an eagle with the tag in
front of the drivers. what age would this coach be? ernie-83pt40 in texas


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[randydupree]

very good post ,jeff ,thanks for explaining so that we could understand
it!.which futureliner did you work on? cool old bus! randydupree93wb
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Miller
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 11:06 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Locking Tag Axle Tire


The "port effect" in diesel injection (ex: 3208) is due to the metal
lines stretching and contracting delaying the injection pulse (like
water in a hose in an old Bugs Bunny cartoon), where in air brake
lines the delay is due to the compressed air pulse traveling along
the lines and the inertia of the air. You are correct Day that
eventually the pressure will be the same at all points in the line,
but line lengths and diameters will affect the time that this
pressure takes to reach the brake chamber at the end of the line.
Twice the line length will take roughly twice as long, just like
sound waves. This was one of the factors I had to take into
consideration when designing an air-brake system for the Futurliner
thanks largely to a generous donation from Bendix Brake.

Since the air leaves the relay valve and is split at the valve into
the two lines, the air pressure will also take the path of least
resistance (lower pressure) which can also cause one brake to get a
larger force momentarily due to a restriction, once the wheel stops
then inertia and the difference between dynamic friction and static
friction can retain the locked condition.

Have to consider all possibilities when asessing a problem, I'm still
thinking it's a mechanical problem though and hope he posts the
solution/findings.

- Jeff Miller


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, DAY8293A@C... wrote:
> THE LENGTH ON THE INJECTOR LINES ARE PRECISE DUE TO THE
TIMING FOR THE
> FUEL TO BE INJECTED INTO THE CYLINDER AT A PRECISE TIME. (WHICH OF
COURSE YOU
> KNEW)
> THE LENGTH OF THE AIR LINES ARE NOT PRECISE FOR "TIMING"
BECAUSE AIR
> PRESSURE SHOULD BE EQUAL THROUGHOUT THE LENGTH OF THE LINES. ALL
BRAKES ARE
> SUPPOSED TO APPLY AT THE SAME TIME. THE LEFT SIDE DOES NOT APPLY
BEFORE THE
> RIGHT SIDE. THE AIR PRESSURE WILL BE THE SAME AT ALL POINTS
THROUGHOUT THE LINE.
> IF A DIFFERENCE DOES OCCUR, IT WILL BE DUE TO OBSTRUCTIONS,
RESTRICTIONS, OR
> SOME OTHER PROBLEM. DAY JAX FLA 83 PT-40.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[randydupree]

dennis,the very newest eagles had a tag axle,i don't know how many were
built,but at least one was completed.i saw it at a bus show (not a motorhome
show) somewhere.i think eagle was trying to get into the conversion shell
market,with a pupose built shell. randydupree93wb
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Nichols
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 11:39 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Locking Tag Axle Tire




At 6/10/2005 08:54 AM, Jeff Miller wrote:
>Telling the Eagle 10 from the Eagle 15 made easy eh Randy? The bogie
>wheels in front of the drive look so , ... different? I was always
>amused by the 96" front cap on the 102" wide Eagle 10 also.
>
>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, randydupree
>wrote:
> > and another bit of trivia for you.a extra axle behind the drive
>axle is a tag axle,when the extra axle is in front of the drive axle
>its called a boogie axle.only the very newest eagles have a tag
>axle,and i think they went to air ride also,at the very end of
>production..randydupree93wb

The Model 01 Eagles had the tag axle trailing. The Model 05, introduced
mid- to late-60s, swapped the axles around. As far as I was aware, all
3-axle Eagles from the Model 05 through the 20 had the same axle order. Was
the reversion to the trailing tag axle a part of the production by the
re-incarnated company?

Also, I think the only common 102" wide Eagle was the Model 15.

--
Dennis Nichols, been there, driven that
'88 WB40 XXV
"Priscilla"


--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.6 - Release Date: 6/8/2005





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Stephen Birtles]

It might be prudent to get the brake schematic from your bluebox and
have a look or better still take an air brake course to understand the
inner workings or air brakes
Stephen 77fc35



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, DAY8293A@C... wrote:
> Say guys,,, would this be ok for you?? I can see the
letters, and
> still use lower case for you !!
> One question,, where does the brake "air pulse" start? at the
brake
> pedal? Or does that control another brake control system that sends
out the
> compressed air? Seems the rear brakes get their air from the rear
air tanks, and the
> front from the front ones. Does it go all the way to the front
pedal, and
> then back to the rear wheels??
> I have never thought about how that works. Might be something
good to
> know,,, DAY JAX FLA 83 PT-40
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jeff Miller]

To reduce the lag-time (delay) from pedal (treadle) to brake there is
a relay valve near the center of each braked axle. Usually centered
to maintain equal-length brake lines, this relay valve takes a small
control pressure from the treadle valve (pedal) and opens the relay
valve proportionally to let a large amount of air through from the
local tanks and large supply lines.

So the simple version is that the actual braking air pressure needs
only to travel from the local air tank through the relay valve to the
brake chambers, ... not the length of the coach.

- Jeff Miller


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, DAY8293A@C... wrote:
> Say guys,,, would this be ok for you?? I can see the
letters, and
> still use lower case for you !!
> One question,, where does the brake "air pulse" start? at the
brake
> pedal? Or does that control another brake control system that sends
out the
> compressed air? Seems the rear brakes get their air from the rear
air tanks, and the
> front from the front ones. Does it go all the way to the front
pedal, and
> then back to the rear wheels??
> I have never thought about how that works. Might be something
good to
> know,,, DAY JAX FLA 83 PT-40
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[DAY8293A@...]

Thanks,,, I have been wondering how that system worked. It didn't
seem logical that the air was coming to the front and then to the back. Thanks
,, DAY JAX, FLA 83 PT-40


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]