Pricey repairs

[Jack & Donna Smith]

ALL: Though I didn't plan it this way, I seem to be getting an idea
on the price of reparing a "Vintage" Coach.
The first 'Mistake' was that we got it at a great price.. Then we
took it to San Diego for a weekend. Brakes locked up and wouldnt
move, so we took it to Holland Motors, feeling they knew something
about Birds. They simply farmed the job out and hit us with a $3500+
bill. (Felt we were ripped off).
Later that year, we drove it to Seattle, via Utah. Had to replace a
couple of chassis heater hoses along the way. In Grants Pass, we
spent just under $2K to replace a cracked cylender head.
The next spring, we replaced the refigerator, Shore Power cord, and
receptical and re-upgraded to 50A. (someone had installed 30A stuff)!
Then we had some front end maintenance done, (rutine), and they
discovered the brake wheel cylenders had to be replaced. More$$$.
Now with the addition of new tires and carpet we should be done. I
thank the members of the Board that have helped me so much.
Oh, yeah, a few months after we got the coach we layed out #3K for a
paint job.
Well, as Jeff Miller commented, "Pay Now Or Pay Later".
A minor note: The latches on both closet doors and the barhroom need
replacment. Went down to the local marine supply store, and WOW, $97
each for these items.. Lowes must have something I can use!!!!
West Marine makes Camp World look cheap!!
Jack & Donna Smith
1973FC31
SoCal

===================================================================


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner wrote:
>
> Mike this is scary.........you and I agree. I believe this issue of
> what it costs to upgrade and maintain an older Bluebird is very
> important here, and for the most part misunderstood. Time after time
> I have seen people buy these older coaches and then are stunned when
> they get their first bill for redoing the brakes for instance. One
> fellow sent me an email off net asking if $3500 was out of line for
> replacing the front brakes, rear drums, S cams, brake shoes etc. What
> could I say? In my case I have been working on and off pretty
> steadily for 4 years repairing and replacing parts and upgrading my
> 1982 FC35. Mike I believe you have spent even more money and time on
> yours havent you?
>
> The bottom line is if you want to have a reliable coach then expect
> to spend either some major time if you are mechanically inclined, or
> some major bucks to get a used one up to snuff and reliable when
> travelling. For instance I have my generator control box out now and
> am completely rebuilding it. The ITS relay for it( should cost about
> $5.00 its so simple) costs $200.00 by the time I pay shipping from
> Kinsley Power a Kohler dealer.
>
> But there is good news for anyone buying an older Bluebird. Most of
> the parts are available from Bluebird, truck repair shops, and/or
> NAPA. And members on this forum will help with the information you
> need if you chose to do it yourself and are mechanically adept.
>
> tom
> 1982 FC35
> Vernon Center,NY
>
>
> At 09:29 AM 10/20/2005, you wrote:
> >yeah, mebbe, but you have to have "issues" to take on the
> >stewardship of a vintage Wanderlodge.
> >Most wannabes would be advised to buy a late model used type C, more
> >in sync with their "consumer mentality.
> >In broad strokes: if you subscribe to "Consumer Reports", GET OUTA
HERE!!!!
> >Mike Hohnstein
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Winston
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 8:18 AM
> > Subject: RE: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Pricey repairs
> >
> >
> > Scott, you might want to lay off the caffeine for awhile.
> >
> > -Winston
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 11:37 PM
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Pricey repairs
> >
> >
> >
> > Tom, your thoughts on the purchase of a coach are just a tad off the
> > mark! Sorry.. You own a coach that is almost 10yrs older than
what he
> > is looking at..and how long have you owned your coach..and when was
> > the last time you entered the buying market?? I think the market has
> > changed since then. For you to make that comment/conclusion from the
> > posts from Wallace and Mike is kinda wayyyy off base. You have no
> > clue the condition of that coach. I believe that he (Wallace) is
> > somewhat of a seasoned BB owner and certainly has a VERY
> > QUALIFIED "consultant" with him to make that decision. Don't you
> > think they evaluated the price vs repairs..hence value..Maybe just
> > maybe..there were some "other" things and given they BOTH have been
> > around BB for years that they could make this decision?? As you
> > said "you have no idea what his standards are" ...it is not always
> > black and white..Price deduct all the "things" YOU expect to be in
> > order. Sheesh you don't even know what the price was...gimme a
> > break..and by the way "what exactly is a high standard" seems like
> > mebbe your level and someone elses may just be a little
different. So
> > please refrain...Actually are you screwing up the wannabes???
> > hmmm...marketing vs engineering..the debate continues!!
> >
> > Scott B
> > 86FC35
> > SC
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Wallace I have no idea what your standards are when selecting a
> > > coach. I suppose it depends a lot on how much of the maintenance
> > and
> > > repair you are capable of doing. But I noticed that you said there
> > > were far to many problems including tires and batteries.
Those two
> > > items would not bother me in the least however I would reduce the
> > > price I would pay for the coach by the amount to replace both of
> > > those items. Same with other things that Ralph found.
> > >
> > > I would guess there are others on this forum that are either
> > > considering upgrading to a newer Bluebird or becoming first time
> > > buyers. I would not want them to get the impression that anything
> > > should be a show stopper when considering a coach. In my case when
> > > looking for a Bluebird I would not consider any coach that had
rust
> > > on the chassis or body panels unless it was something that my
local
> > > Bluebird school bus dealer could not repair at an attractive
price.
> > >
> > > Bottom line in my opinion is to get a coach that either has been
> > > maintained to a high standard or is offered at a price where
it can
> > > be upgraded to that level.
> > >
> > > tom
> > > 1982 FC35
> > > Vernon Center,NY
> > >
> > >
> > > At 09:29 PM 10/19/2005, you wrote:
> > > >Mike, saw your post so thought I would add my 2 cents. We (Ralph
> > &
> > > >I) looked at the 91 today and decided to pass. Won't bore you
> > with
> > > >details, but far too many problems to correct including new tires
> > > >and probably batteries. Will keep the ear open for other deals.
> > > >Regards;
> > > >Wallace & Faye Craig
> > > >
> > > >mbulriss <mbulriss@y...> wrote:
> > > >Winston,
> > > >
> > > >Now that we see this, no wonder that owner scared you with his
> > tales
> > > >of expensive repairs! Interesting sales strategy on his part!
> > > >
> > > >As Scott and Ralph pointed out, we all need to be educated
> > consumers
> > > >and shop around if a quote seems to peg our BS sniffer meter. I
> > hope
> > > >that first guy you ran into is still holding the rusty exhaust
> > > >pipe also!>
> > > >
> > > >Buddy Gregg service..... that explains a lot. I'll let Ralph
> > comment
> > > >further on that when he gets back into town, but if there's a way
> > to
> > > >make it expensive, Buddy's guys can do it. I asked them to check
> > for
> > > >a suspected air bag leak in a specific bag. Their response was
> > > >$4,500-5,000 to replace all the air bags. They "wouldn't just
> > replace
> > > >one bag". Of course they never bothered to evn look at it either!
> > > >Ralph freed up the sticky air valve for me at a Lone Star
> > > >Birds rally with a $3 can of PB Blaster (I think it was). An air
> > > >dryer filter R&R at Buddy's was I think a $600 or 700 quote (3-4
> > hours
> > > >labor plus $100+ parts); versus the $32 filter and the hour and a
> > half
> > > >I took to do it myself! I work slow.....
> > > >
> > > >Since the owner mentioned Cat, I will assume that the 91 in
> > question
> > > >was an SP model. Can't speak to that model specifically;
maybe Hank
> > > >or someone else can comment on the $1500 of labor to change an
> > > >alternator. I still can't fathom having to R&R the bumper to
get to
> > > >the alternator, nor can I see it taking more than 2 hours
total to
> > get
> > > >that done. Makes the PT Detroits seem much easier to work on now!
> > > >
> > > >The comment about the Caterpiller shop having to "fabricate tools
> > > >because they do not generally work on Bluebirds and their tools
> > don't
> > > >work" cracked me up. That's hilarious! Now I know Harley's have
> > some
> > > >special "factory only" tools, but I've never found anything
on the
> > > >Bird that wasn't readily available in my own set of "non-
> > professional"
> > > >tools, much less at a professional repair facility or dealer
shop.
> > > >
> > > >While the prior owner seems to have delighted in throwing money
> > away,
> > > >you *can* find "competent" service facilities for more reasonable
> > > >prices. Some people only go to their auto dealers for oil
changes.
> > > >Some people enjoy bragging about how much things cost them as
> > > >a badge of their affulence. Most folks on these forums are more
> > > >concerned with doing things a little more economically, and
having
> > it
> > > >done right the first time.
> > > >
> > > >As was stated by several other members, you just have to be a
smart
> > > >consumer and seek advice when you need it, before you throw
> > yourself
> > > >to the wolves. I think the responses that you are seeing here
> > should
> > > >indicate that there are other ways to be sure things are fixed
> > > >properly without just throwing $$$ at it with no questions asked.
> > > >Please don't be scared off by this one owner. I hope that you are
> > > >seeing by the responses here that the situation you have here
> > seems to
> > > >be an anomoly rather than the rule.
> > > >
> > > >Also, before you buy, you might want to consider having someone
> > that
> > > >really knows what they are doing, thoroughly check out the
> > prospective
> > > >Bird for you so that there are no expensive surprises.
> > > >
> > > >Good luck with your hunt!
> > > >
> > > >Mike Bulriss
> > > >83 PT40 "Stagecoach" - For Sale
> > > >91 PT40 "Texas Minivan"
> > > >San Antonio, Texas
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, winston barrows
> > > >
> > > >wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > install is
> > > >maybe 4 hours.>>
> > > > > Hi, Ralph,
> > > > > According to the owner, the book is three hours bumper off and
> > three
> > > >hours bumper on for six hours. This is what he writes:
> > > > >
> > > > > I took my unit to Buddy Gregg, in Knoxville TN for service.
> > $115.00
> > > >per hour. the cost of parts will not be the shock. The shock is
> > > >getting something done, done right, and done to the high
> > expectations
> > > >that Bluebird owners possess. By way of example, shortly after
> > > >purchase, the fuel gauge went to "empty" even though it was
clearly
> > > >full. Buddy Gregg traced the repair to the sensor located at the
> > top
> > > >of the fuel tank. This is accessed through a door on the floor of
> > the
> > > >coach, which was overlayed with 3/4 inch plywood and the marble
> > floor.
> > > >the estimate to fix? $6-700, plus the $10.00 sending unit,
but they
> > > >could not replace the marble they would have to chisel out of the
> > > >floor. Everything in a Bluebird is like that. I asked them to
look
> > at
> > > >the alternator/battery system because the green dash light
> > sometimes
> > > >came on (which I now know is normal). They replaced the
alternator.
> > > >Cost of alternator (which I now do not believe had any problems)
> > $350;
> > > >Cost of labor to replace alternator?
> > > > > $1,500. why so expensive? because they had to take the bumper
> > off,
> > > >and then take off all the belts and hoses in the engine. three
> > hours
> > > >off, and three hours on ( that is just the labor for the bumper).
> > You
> > > >don't even want to know what Caterpiller charges to look at
> > Bluebirds.
> > > >Caterpiller likes dealing with businesses that own tractors. Hell
> > if
> > > >you bill your tractor out for 2 or three hundred per hour,
you can
> > > >afford thousands to have a GED trained technician tell you you
> > need a
> > > >fuel filter, and then hand you a bill for $2,000, (labor at $130
> > per
> > > >hour) plus materials (a $75.00 filter which should have been what
> > was
> > > >checked within the first hour). Of course, they have to bill 2 to
> > > >three hours to put paper on the floor of the coach so they don't
> > track
> > > >in sludge, and then fabricate tools because they do not generally
> > work
> > > >on Bluebirds and their tools don't work.
> > > > >
> > > > > The original price you pay for a Bluebird doesn't really
matter
> > > >much. It is the beginning of a process that is akin to placing a
> > > >vacuum cleaner on you wallet and watching the money
dissapear. End
> > of
> > > >owner email text.
> > > > > It seems to me that part of the responsibility of this forum
> > should
> > > >be to educate folks on the scale of economy of Wanderlodge
> > ownership.
> > > >A lot of people think Buddy Gregg is a reputable dealership
and I'm
> > > >not saying they aren't (especially since I've had no experience
> > with
> > > >them). So my logic is if such a competent repair shop costs so
> > much,
> > > >then what's it going to cost to go to the guy you'll educate?
> > > > >
> > > > > "Ralph L. Fullenwider" wrote:
> > > > > Hello Winston:
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike B gave you some pretty good answers to your question. And
> > yes,
> > > >some
> > > > > repairs can be costly, no question there. Blow a 12R 22.5 tire
> > and
> > > >wheel
> > > > > wells along with various other damage can occur.
> > > > >
> > > > > As to the pricey alternator job, I agree it was pricey but
> > > >necessary? Even
> > > > > removing the bumper the un install and re install is maybe 4
> > hours.
> > > >Perhaps
> > > > > something else happened, like a broken bolt that had to be
> > drilled out.
> > > > > More than likely they 2 tech's on the job and charged for each
> > > >tech.? That
> > > > > is not right either, in my book. It would be interesting
to have
> > > >seen that
> > > > > bill and what the write up was. No I am not defending that
> > shop, in
> > > >fact I
> > > > > would be dubious of it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Part of what this and other Forums were started for was to
help
> > one
> > > >another
> > > > > as we can and also to list the "known" good shops around the
> > Country to
> > > > > take the birds to and then on the other hand, to know what
> > shops not to
> > > > > take them to. This Forum is intended to be a clearing house of
> > seeking
> > > > > answers to problems and so forth. Even if your not doing the
> > repair
> > > >work <
> > > > > which, as Mike pointed out, will save one some money> one can
> > come
> > > >to the
> > > > > forum's to try to get a better idea of what to expect when
> > taking a
> > > >Coach
> > > > > to a shop. Information among us, is a powerful tool, and one
> > that
> > > >can help
> > > > > you recognize if that shop or repair facility is running high
> > on costs.
> > > > >
> > > > > Repairs on Birds, Prevost, Newell or any high line Coach will
> > > >usually run
> > > > > higher in some respects as they are far advanced machines with
> > more
> > > > > amenities than most others. With that advancement, comes the
> > fact
> > > >that a
> > > > > tech has spent many an hour just learning the how the systems
> > work and
> > > > > those systems change almost daily at times. So yes, shops do
> > ask for a
> > > > > higher wage and get it because we are way past bailing
wire and
> > stickum.
> > > > >
> > > > > In my shop, I charge the $75.00 per hour plus parts rate and I
> > work on
> > > > > Birds. Though, as Mike told you, I have worked on Vectra's and
> > > >bounders and
> > > > > Fleetwood products at the same price. I am also one tech that
> > > >prefers the
> > > > > customer to be with me, if he/she so chooses as I am
working on
> > > >their coach.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bottom line is, information, data, questions and answers
on the
> > > >forum gives
> > > > > anyone a powerful tool, and most of us have learned to use it
> > along
> > > >with
> > > > > learning to do some things by our on hand. And in truth,
most of
> > > >those that
> > > > > do some of the work, learns the systems in them, end up
having a
> > > >greater
> > > > > sense of Ownership and the resultant pride that goes with.
> > There is
> > > >nothing
> > > > > wrong with Birds and you won't find a better coach for not
only
> > fun
> > > >but
> > > > > safety out on the road.
> > > > >
> > > > > Safe travels,
> > > > >
> > > > > Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
> > > > > Ralph's RV Solutions, Duncan, Oklahoma
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
>
><<http://home.swbell.net/rlf47/index.htm>http://home.swbell.net/rlf47/index.htm\
>http://home.swbell.net/rlf47/i
> > ndex.htm
> > > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS
> >
> >
> > Wanderlodge
> >
>
><<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Wand...=Automotiv>h\
ttp://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Wande...=Automotiv
> >
>
>e+maintenance&w3=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w4=Used+recreational+vehicles&w
> > 5=Automotive+radiators&c=5&s=136&.sig=nBZ1FGfixNOUEuB2yfVDgg>
> >
> > Automotive
> >
>
><<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Automotive+maintenance&w1=Wanderlodge&w>h\
ttp://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Automotive+maintenance&w1=Wanderlodge&w
> >
>
>2=Automotive+maintenance&w3=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w4=Used+recreational
> >
+vehicles&w5=Automotive+radiators&c=5&s=136&.sig=Bte5ugbSdf1A3FPqviwLtA>
> > maintenance
> >
> > Recreational
> >
>
><<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w1=Wanderlo>h\
ttp://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w1=Wanderlo
> >
>
>dge&w2=Automotive+maintenance&w3=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w4=Used+recreat
> >
>
>ional+vehicles&w5=Automotive+radiators&c=5&s=136&.sig=njw5dwOHe19C9Xwfcn4Qug
> > > vehicle dealer
> >
> >
> > Used
> >
>
><<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Used+recreational+vehicles&w1=Wanderlod>h\
ttp://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Used+recreational+vehicles&w1=Wanderlod
> >
>
>ge&w2=Automotive+maintenance&w3=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w4=Used+recreati
> >
>
>onal+vehicles&w5=Automotive+radiators&c=5&s=136&.sig=ILeJOA1kAsLLcBTktvCNxQ>
> > recreational vehicles
> >
> > Automotive
> >
>
><<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Automotive+radiators&w1=Wanderlodge&w2=>h\
ttp://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Automotive+radiators&w1=Wanderlodge&w2=
> >
>
>Automotive+maintenance&w3=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w4=Used+recreational+v
> >
ehicles&w5=Automotive+radiators&c=5&s=136&.sig=RiaV7n-e2egqiwvlh5zQWA>
> > radiators
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> >
> > * Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum
> >
>
><<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/\
WanderlodgeForum>

> >" on the web.
> >
> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >

> >
> > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> >
> ><<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> >Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> > a.. Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum" on the web.
> >
> > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
> > of Service.
> >
> >
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >----------
> >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> > * Visit your group
> > "<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum>WanderlodgeForum"
on the web.
> > *
> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > *
> >
Wanderl\
odgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

> >
> > *
> > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> >----------
>

[Jack & Donna Smith]

GET TOGATHER? Bryan, not only have we not been hit by a major storm,
we really do not know what one is, either! In Febuary, we are looking
to spend some time in the high Desert, near the Historic town of
Julian, a beautiful area not far from San Diego.. Come and join us!
Being the dead of Winter, it may rain a bit, but what is 20 min out of
the day. Just gives one enough time to put on some mpre SPF30...
Jack Smith
1973FC31
Sunny SoCal


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Bryan Altier"
wrote:
>
> Scott,
>
> Since your area is the only spot on the globe that has not been hit
by a major storm have you thought about everyone getting together at
the beach again this year???
>
> Bryan Alltier
> Greenville, SC
> 88 WLWB " XANADU"
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Scott
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 8:38 AM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Pricey repairs
>
>
> Pappy, welcome to the forum and this unique BB community. There
> exists a tremendous wealth of knowledge here to help each other etc.
> Many here have been around BlueBird for years. I am sure you will
> find the forums a big help with questions, decisions, etc all you
> have to do is ask...NO question is "silly" that is how we all learn
> and I still have a tremendous amount to learn about our coach. But in
> my opinion that is part of the "wanderful" experience. I have met and
> made some tremendous friends as a result of this group and you will
> as well. SO welcome, enjoy the information.
>
> Scott B
> 86FC35 "RUBY"
> Murrells Inlet SC "right next to heaven"
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Joe Hagan
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Mike and all:
> >
> > I have just recently joined the forum because of my interest in
> Wanderlodge coaches.
> >
> > I agree with your remark that It is always a good idea to have a
> used vehicle mechanically checked-out by a qualified
> mechanic/technician - particularly with the large amount one
> typically invests in purchasing a high-end coach.
> >
> > I enjoy the forum and hope that one day I might be able to share
> some experiences (good, I hope) if and when I purchase a Wanderlodge.
> All my coach experience was with Continental Trailways when there
> still was a Continental Trailways
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Joe (Pappy) Hagan
> >
> > St. George, UT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> a.. Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum" on the web.
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Scott]

Hey there Bryan...shhhhh on the storm stuff...but your right..our
time is comming...

Yes as a matter of fact we will have another rally here but no plans
yet...will ask for dates last years was a little early in my opinion.
sO maybe a little later in the spring before campground prices go
back up and the flowers are out...we will see...

Scott B
86FC35 "RUBY"
Murrells Inlet SC


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Bryan Altier" state@c...> wrote:
>
> Scott,
>
> Since your area is the only spot on the globe that has not been hit
by a major storm have you thought about everyone getting together at
the beach again this year???
>
> Bryan Alltier
> Greenville, SC
> 88 WLWB " XANADU"
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Scott
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 8:38 AM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Pricey repairs
>
>
> Pappy, welcome to the forum and this unique BB community. There
> exists a tremendous wealth of knowledge here to help each other
etc.
> Many here have been around BlueBird for years. I am sure you will
> find the forums a big help with questions, decisions, etc all you
> have to do is ask...NO question is "silly" that is how we all
learn
> and I still have a tremendous amount to learn about our coach.
But in
> my opinion that is part of the "wanderful" experience. I have met
and
> made some tremendous friends as a result of this group and you
will
> as well. SO welcome, enjoy the information.
>
> Scott B
> 86FC35 "RUBY"
> Murrells Inlet SC "right next to heaven"
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Joe Hagan
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Mike and all:
> >
> > I have just recently joined the forum because of my interest in
> Wanderlodge coaches.
> >
> > I agree with your remark that It is always a good idea to have
a
> used vehicle mechanically checked-out by a qualified
> mechanic/technician - particularly with the large amount one
> typically invests in purchasing a high-end coach.
> >
> > I enjoy the forum and hope that one day I might be able to
share
> some experiences (good, I hope) if and when I purchase a
Wanderlodge.
> All my coach experience was with Continental Trailways when there
> still was a Continental Trailways
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Joe (Pappy) Hagan
> >
> > St. George, UT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> a.. Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum" on the web.
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of Service.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Scott]

Winston, Thank you for the totally rediculous reply! It is my Blood
Pressure right now not caffein.

First sign your posts correctly since you want to throw darts throw
em properly..there ya go..

Next you know what ..your right maybe you shouldnt own a bird if you
want to listen to such crap... When a forum member emails me trying
to talk me out of a genny purchase because the kohler/perkins is such
a good machine!AND insinuates I don't know what I am doing to fix
it!! What business is it of his what I do.. I told him I am over it
and I want/can afford a new one...end of subject! He knows who I am
talking about...

LET ME TELL YOU JUST HOW EXPENSIVE IT IS ..I have taken the time to
do routine maintenance the way it should be done...oil change, lube,
and help with the tire mech to remove a broken stud...700.00
bucks..just so I could put 3500.00 in tires on the coach so I could
go to Florida and install a new 8500.00 genny..and burn a little over
600.00 in fuel...AFTER already replacing both heads on the kitty CAT,
new refer and lots of other stuff and YES I BELLIED UP TO THE TABLE
AND PAID RALPH TO COME FROM OKLAHOMA wait actually he was in Texas at
the time...Before the Florida trip since the original purchase I put
appx 1400 miles on my coach which IS PAID FOR AS WELL...and I have
put a little more than 1/2 the original purchase price back into it!!
I am not complaining about the prices on stuff...I like nice stuff
and I realize that I will pay for it...and you should realize that as
well.

We still work so we are not living on a fixed income as some are...
and continue to whine about how expensive things are! Give me a
break..you can't take it with you!!

If you are worried about pennies then stay in the penny arena...SOO
your right BLUE BIRDS are tooo expensive for you ...go buy a Minne
Winne and be done with it ...BUT if you want to see a really nice FC
(Forward Control..engine in front) let me know...

I apolgise to the others here...this should have been handled in
private off forum stuff..but please don't make silly comments to me
publicly and not expect a retort!!!

NO RESPONSE NEEDED..

SCOTT BISHOP
1986 FORWARD CONTROL 35 REAR BATH "RUBY"
MURRELLS INLET, SOUTH CAROLINA !!


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Winston" wrote:
>
> Scott, you might want to lay off the caffeine for awhile.
>
> -Winston
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott
> Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 11:37 PM
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Pricey repairs
>
>
>
> Tom, your thoughts on the purchase of a coach are just a tad off
the
> mark! Sorry.. You own a coach that is almost 10yrs older than what
he
> is looking at..and how long have you owned your coach..and when was
> the last time you entered the buying market?? I think the market
has
> changed since then. For you to make that comment/conclusion from
the
> posts from Wallace and Mike is kinda wayyyy off base. You have no
> clue the condition of that coach. I believe that he (Wallace) is
> somewhat of a seasoned BB owner and certainly has a VERY
> QUALIFIED "consultant" with him to make that decision. Don't you
> think they evaluated the price vs repairs..hence value..Maybe just
> maybe..there were some "other" things and given they BOTH have been
> around BB for years that they could make this decision?? As you
> said "you have no idea what his standards are" ...it is not always
> black and white..Price deduct all the "things" YOU expect to be in
> order. Sheesh you don't even know what the price was...gimme a
> break..and by the way "what exactly is a high standard" seems like
> mebbe your level and someone elses may just be a little different.
So
> please refrain...Actually are you screwing up the wannabes???
> hmmm...marketing vs engineering..the debate continues!!
>
> Scott B
> 86FC35
> SC
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
> wrote:
> >
> > Wallace I have no idea what your standards are when selecting a
> > coach. I suppose it depends a lot on how much of the maintenance
> and
> > repair you are capable of doing. But I noticed that you said
there
> > were far to many problems including tires and batteries. Those
two
> > items would not bother me in the least however I would reduce the
> > price I would pay for the coach by the amount to replace both of
> > those items. Same with other things that Ralph found.
> >
> > I would guess there are others on this forum that are either
> > considering upgrading to a newer Bluebird or becoming first time
> > buyers. I would not want them to get the impression that anything
> > should be a show stopper when considering a coach. In my case
when
> > looking for a Bluebird I would not consider any coach that had
rust
> > on the chassis or body panels unless it was something that my
local
> > Bluebird school bus dealer could not repair at an attractive
price.
> >
> > Bottom line in my opinion is to get a coach that either has been
> > maintained to a high standard or is offered at a price where it
can
> > be upgraded to that level.
> >
> > tom
> > 1982 FC35
> > Vernon Center,NY
> >
> >
> > At 09:29 PM 10/19/2005, you wrote:
> > >Mike, saw your post so thought I would add my 2 cents. We
(Ralph
> &
> > >I) looked at the 91 today and decided to pass. Won't bore you
> with
> > >details, but far too many problems to correct including new
tires
> > >and probably batteries. Will keep the ear open for other deals.
> > >Regards;
> > >Wallace & Faye Craig
> > >
> > >mbulriss <mbulriss@y...> wrote:
> > >Winston,
> > >
> > >Now that we see this, no wonder that owner scared you with his
> tales
> > >of expensive repairs! Interesting sales strategy on his part!
> > >
> > >As Scott and Ralph pointed out, we all need to be educated
> consumers
> > >and shop around if a quote seems to peg our BS sniffer meter. I
> hope
> > >that first guy you ran into is still holding the rusty exhaust
> > >pipe also!>
> > >
> > >Buddy Gregg service..... that explains a lot. I'll let Ralph
> comment
> > >further on that when he gets back into town, but if there's a
way
> to
> > >make it expensive, Buddy's guys can do it. I asked them to check
> for
> > >a suspected air bag leak in a specific bag. Their response was
> > >$4,500-5,000 to replace all the air bags. They "wouldn't just
> replace
> > >one bag". Of course they never bothered to evn look at it either!
> > >Ralph freed up the sticky air valve for me at a Lone Star
> > >Birds rally with a $3 can of PB Blaster (I think it was). An air
> > >dryer filter R&R at Buddy's was I think a $600 or 700 quote (3-4
> hours
> > >labor plus $100+ parts); versus the $32 filter and the hour and
a
> half
> > >I took to do it myself! I work slow.....
> > >
> > >Since the owner mentioned Cat, I will assume that the 91 in
> question
> > >was an SP model. Can't speak to that model specifically; maybe
Hank
> > >or someone else can comment on the $1500 of labor to change an
> > >alternator. I still can't fathom having to R&R the bumper to get
to
> > >the alternator, nor can I see it taking more than 2 hours total
to
> get
> > >that done. Makes the PT Detroits seem much easier to work on now!
> > >
> > >The comment about the Caterpiller shop having to "fabricate tools
> > >because they do not generally work on Bluebirds and their tools
> don't
> > >work" cracked me up. That's hilarious! Now I know Harley's have
> some
> > >special "factory only" tools, but I've never found anything on
the
> > >Bird that wasn't readily available in my own set of "non-
> professional"
> > >tools, much less at a professional repair facility or dealer
shop.
> > >
> > >While the prior owner seems to have delighted in throwing money
> away,
> > >you *can* find "competent" service facilities for more reasonable
> > >prices. Some people only go to their auto dealers for oil
changes.
> > >Some people enjoy bragging about how much things cost them as
> > >a badge of their affulence. Most folks on these forums are more
> > >concerned with doing things a little more economically, and
having
> it
> > >done right the first time.
> > >
> > >As was stated by several other members, you just have to be a
smart
> > >consumer and seek advice when you need it, before you throw
> yourself
> > >to the wolves. I think the responses that you are seeing here
> should
> > >indicate that there are other ways to be sure things are fixed
> > >properly without just throwing $$$ at it with no questions asked.
> > >Please don't be scared off by this one owner. I hope that you are
> > >seeing by the responses here that the situation you have here
> seems to
> > >be an anomoly rather than the rule.
> > >
> > >Also, before you buy, you might want to consider having someone
> that
> > >really knows what they are doing, thoroughly check out the
> prospective
> > >Bird for you so that there are no expensive surprises.
> > >
> > >Good luck with your hunt!
> > >
> > >Mike Bulriss
> > >83 PT40 "Stagecoach" - For Sale
> > >91 PT40 "Texas Minivan"
> > >San Antonio, Texas
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, winston barrows
> > >
> > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > install is
> > >maybe 4 hours.>>
> > > > Hi, Ralph,
> > > > According to the owner, the book is three hours bumper off
and
> three
> > >hours bumper on for six hours. This is what he writes:
> > > >
> > > > I took my unit to Buddy Gregg, in Knoxville TN for service.
> $115.00
> > >per hour. the cost of parts will not be the shock. The shock is
> > >getting something done, done right, and done to the high
> expectations
> > >that Bluebird owners possess. By way of example, shortly after
> > >purchase, the fuel gauge went to "empty" even though it was
clearly
> > >full. Buddy Gregg traced the repair to the sensor located at the
> top
> > >of the fuel tank. This is accessed through a door on the floor
of
> the
> > >coach, which was overlayed with 3/4 inch plywood and the marble
> floor.
> > >the estimate to fix? $6-700, plus the $10.00 sending unit, but
they
> > >could not replace the marble they would have to chisel out of the
> > >floor. Everything in a Bluebird is like that. I asked them to
look
> at
> > >the alternator/battery system because the green dash light
> sometimes
> > >came on (which I now know is normal). They replaced the
alternator.
> > >Cost of alternator (which I now do not believe had any problems)
> $350;
> > >Cost of labor to replace alternator?
> > > > $1,500. why so expensive? because they had to take the bumper
> off,
> > >and then take off all the belts and hoses in the engine. three
> hours
> > >off, and three hours on ( that is just the labor for the
bumper).
> You
> > >don't even want to know what Caterpiller charges to look at
> Bluebirds.
> > >Caterpiller likes dealing with businesses that own tractors.
Hell
> if
> > >you bill your tractor out for 2 or three hundred per hour, you
can
> > >afford thousands to have a GED trained technician tell you you
> need a
> > >fuel filter, and then hand you a bill for $2,000, (labor at $130
> per
> > >hour) plus materials (a $75.00 filter which should have been
what
> was
> > >checked within the first hour). Of course, they have to bill 2 to
> > >three hours to put paper on the floor of the coach so they don't
> track
> > >in sludge, and then fabricate tools because they do not
generally
> work
> > >on Bluebirds and their tools don't work.
> > > >
> > > > The original price you pay for a Bluebird doesn't really
matter
> > >much. It is the beginning of a process that is akin to placing a
> > >vacuum cleaner on you wallet and watching the money dissapear.
End
> of
> > >owner email text.
> > > > It seems to me that part of the responsibility of this forum
> should
> > >be to educate folks on the scale of economy of Wanderlodge
> ownership.
> > >A lot of people think Buddy Gregg is a reputable dealership and
I'm
> > >not saying they aren't (especially since I've had no experience
> with
> > >them). So my logic is if such a competent repair shop costs so
> much,
> > >then what's it going to cost to go to the guy you'll educate?
> > > >
> > > > "Ralph L. Fullenwider" wrote:
> > > > Hello Winston:
> > > >
> > > > Mike B gave you some pretty good answers to your question.
And
> yes,
> > >some
> > > > repairs can be costly, no question there. Blow a 12R 22.5
tire
> and
> > >wheel
> > > > wells along with various other damage can occur.
> > > >
> > > > As to the pricey alternator job, I agree it was pricey but
> > >necessary? Even
> > > > removing the bumper the un install and re install is maybe 4
> hours.
> > >Perhaps
> > > > something else happened, like a broken bolt that had to be
> drilled out.
> > > > More than likely they 2 tech's on the job and charged for each
> > >tech.? That
> > > > is not right either, in my book. It would be interesting to
have
> > >seen that
> > > > bill and what the write up was. No I am not defending that
> shop, in
> > >fact I
> > > > would be dubious of it.
> > > >
> > > > Part of what this and other Forums were started for was to
help
> one
> > >another
> > > > as we can and also to list the "known" good shops around the
> Country to
> > > > take the birds to and then on the other hand, to know what
> shops not to
> > > > take them to. This Forum is intended to be a clearing house
of
> seeking
> > > > answers to problems and so forth. Even if your not doing the
> repair
> > >work <
> > > > which, as Mike pointed out, will save one some money> one can
> come
> > >to the
> > > > forum's to try to get a better idea of what to expect when
> taking a
> > >Coach
> > > > to a shop. Information among us, is a powerful tool, and one
> that
> > >can help
> > > > you recognize if that shop or repair facility is running high
> on costs.
> > > >
> > > > Repairs on Birds, Prevost, Newell or any high line Coach will
> > >usually run
> > > > higher in some respects as they are far advanced machines
with
> more
> > > > amenities than most others. With that advancement, comes the
> fact
> > >that a
> > > > tech has spent many an hour just learning the how the systems
> work and
> > > > those systems change almost daily at times. So yes, shops do
> ask for a
> > > > higher wage and get it because we are way past bailing wire
and
> stickum.
> > > >
> > > > In my shop, I charge the $75.00 per hour plus parts rate and
I
> work on
> > > > Birds. Though, as Mike told you, I have worked on Vectra's and
> > >bounders and
> > > > Fleetwood products at the same price. I am also one tech that
> > >prefers the
> > > > customer to be with me, if he/she so chooses as I am working
on
> > >their coach.
> > > >
> > > > Bottom line is, information, data, questions and answers on
the
> > >forum gives
> > > > anyone a powerful tool, and most of us have learned to use it
> along
> > >with
> > > > learning to do some things by our on hand. And in truth, most
of
> > >those that
> > > > do some of the work, learns the systems in them, end up
having a
> > >greater
> > > > sense of Ownership and the resultant pride that goes with.
> There is
> > >nothing
> > > > wrong with Birds and you won't find a better coach for not
only
> fun
> > >but
> > > > safety out on the road.
> > > >
> > > > Safe travels,
> > > >
> > > > Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
> > > > Ralph's RV Solutions, Duncan, Oklahoma
> > > >
> > >
>
<http://home.swbell.net/rlf47/index.htm>http://home.swbell.net/rlf47/i
> ndex.htm
> > > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
>
>
> Wanderlodge
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Wanderlodge&w1=Wanderlodge&w2=Automotiv
>
e+maintenance&w3=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w4=Used+recreational+vehi
cles&w
> 5=Automotive+radiators&c=5&s=136&.sig=nBZ1FGfixNOUEuB2yfVDgg>
>
> Automotive
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Automotive+maintenance&w1=Wanderlodge&w
>
2=Automotive+maintenance&w3=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w4=Used+recrea
tional
>
+vehicles&w5=Automotive+radiators&c=5&s=136&.sig=Bte5ugbSdf1A3FPqviwLt
A>
> maintenance
>
> Recreational
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w1=Wanderlo
>
dge&w2=Automotive+maintenance&w3=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w4=Used+r
ecreat
>
ional+vehicles&w5=Automotive+radiators&c=5&s=136&.sig=njw5dwOHe19C9Xwf
cn4Qug
> > vehicle dealer
>
>
> Used
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Used+recreational+vehicles&w1=Wanderlod
>
ge&w2=Automotive+maintenance&w3=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w4=Used+re
creati
>
onal+vehicles&w5=Automotive+radiators&c=5&s=136&.sig=ILeJOA1kAsLLcBTkt
vCNxQ>
> recreational vehicles
>
> Automotive
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Automotive+radiators&w1=Wanderlodge&w2=
>
Automotive+maintenance&w3=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w4=Used+recreati
onal+v
> ehicles&w5=Automotive+radiators&c=5&s=136&.sig=RiaV7n-
e2egqiwvlh5zQWA>
> radiators
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>
> * Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum> " on the web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> _____
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[ronmarabito2002]

Unfortunately on that $3500 brake repair. You were ripped off.
Probably nothing buy an air leak and the emergency brakes set. You
should have gotten an entire brake job.

R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40




--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jack & Donna Smith"
wrote:
>
> ALL: Though I didn't plan it this way, I seem to be getting an
idea
> on the price of reparing a "Vintage" Coach.
> The first 'Mistake' was that we got it at a great price.. Then we
> took it to San Diego for a weekend. Brakes locked up and wouldnt
> move, so we took it to Holland Motors, feeling they knew something
> about Birds. They simply farmed the job out and hit us with a
$3500+
> bill. (Felt we were ripped off).
> Later that year, we drove it to Seattle, via Utah. Had to replace
a
> couple of chassis heater hoses along the way. In Grants Pass, we
> spent just under $2K to replace a cracked cylender head.
> The next spring, we replaced the refigerator, Shore Power cord, and
> receptical and re-upgraded to 50A. (someone had installed 30A
stuff)!
> Then we had some front end maintenance done, (rutine), and they
> discovered the brake wheel cylenders had to be replaced. More$$$.
> Now with the addition of new tires and carpet we should be done. I
> thank the members of the Board that have helped me so much.
> Oh, yeah, a few months after we got the coach we layed out #3K for
a
> paint job.
> Well, as Jeff Miller commented, "Pay Now Or Pay Later".
> A minor note: The latches on both closet doors and the barhroom
need
> replacment. Went down to the local marine supply store, and WOW,
$97
> each for these items.. Lowes must have something I can use!!!!
> West Marine makes Camp World look cheap!!
> Jack & Donna Smith
> 1973FC31
> SoCal
>
> ===================================================================
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
wrote:
> >
> > Mike this is scary.........you and I agree. I believe this
issue of
> > what it costs to upgrade and maintain an older Bluebird is very
> > important here, and for the most part misunderstood. Time after
time
> > I have seen people buy these older coaches and then are stunned
when
> > they get their first bill for redoing the brakes for instance.
One
> > fellow sent me an email off net asking if $3500 was out of line
for
> > replacing the front brakes, rear drums, S cams, brake shoes etc.
What
> > could I say? In my case I have been working on and off pretty
> > steadily for 4 years repairing and replacing parts and upgrading
my
> > 1982 FC35. Mike I believe you have spent even more money and
time on
> > yours havent you?
> >
> > The bottom line is if you want to have a reliable coach then
expect
> > to spend either some major time if you are mechanically
inclined, or
> > some major bucks to get a used one up to snuff and reliable when
> > travelling. For instance I have my generator control box out now
and
> > am completely rebuilding it. The ITS relay for it( should cost
about
> > $5.00 its so simple) costs $200.00 by the time I pay shipping
from
> > Kinsley Power a Kohler dealer.
> >
> > But there is good news for anyone buying an older Bluebird. Most
of
> > the parts are available from Bluebird, truck repair shops,
and/or
> > NAPA. And members on this forum will help with the information
you
> > need if you chose to do it yourself and are mechanically adept.
> >
> > tom
> > 1982 FC35
> > Vernon Center,NY
> >
> >
> > At 09:29 AM 10/20/2005, you wrote:
> > >yeah, mebbe, but you have to have "issues" to take on the
> > >stewardship of a vintage Wanderlodge.
> > >Most wannabes would be advised to buy a late model used type C,
more
> > >in sync with their "consumer mentality.
> > >In broad strokes: if you subscribe to "Consumer Reports", GET
OUTA
> HERE!!!!
> > >Mike Hohnstein
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Winston
> > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 8:18 AM
> > > Subject: RE: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Pricey repairs
> > >
> > >
> > > Scott, you might want to lay off the caffeine for awhile.
> > >
> > > -Winston
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 11:37 PM
> > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Pricey repairs
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Tom, your thoughts on the purchase of a coach are just a tad
off the
> > > mark! Sorry.. You own a coach that is almost 10yrs older than
> what he
> > > is looking at..and how long have you owned your coach..and
when was
> > > the last time you entered the buying market?? I think the
market has
> > > changed since then. For you to make that comment/conclusion
from the
> > > posts from Wallace and Mike is kinda wayyyy off base. You
have no
> > > clue the condition of that coach. I believe that he
(Wallace) is
> > > somewhat of a seasoned BB owner and certainly has a VERY
> > > QUALIFIED "consultant" with him to make that decision. Don't
you
> > > think they evaluated the price vs repairs..hence
value..Maybe just
> > > maybe..there were some "other" things and given they BOTH
have been
> > > around BB for years that they could make this decision?? As
you
> > > said "you have no idea what his standards are" ...it is not
always
> > > black and white..Price deduct all the "things" YOU expect to
be in
> > > order. Sheesh you don't even know what the price was...gimme
a
> > > break..and by the way "what exactly is a high standard"
seems like
> > > mebbe your level and someone elses may just be a little
> different. So
> > > please refrain...Actually are you screwing up the wannabes???
> > > hmmm...marketing vs engineering..the debate continues!!
> > >
> > > Scott B
> > > 86FC35
> > > SC
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner

> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Wallace I have no idea what your standards are when
selecting a
> > > > coach. I suppose it depends a lot on how much of the
maintenance
> > > and
> > > > repair you are capable of doing. But I noticed that you
said there
> > > > were far to many problems including tires and batteries.
> Those two
> > > > items would not bother me in the least however I would
reduce the
> > > > price I would pay for the coach by the amount to replace
both of
> > > > those items. Same with other things that Ralph found.
> > > >
> > > > I would guess there are others on this forum that are
either
> > > > considering upgrading to a newer Bluebird or becoming
first time
> > > > buyers. I would not want them to get the impression that
anything
> > > > should be a show stopper when considering a coach. In my
case when
> > > > looking for a Bluebird I would not consider any coach that
had
> rust
> > > > on the chassis or body panels unless it was something that
my
> local
> > > > Bluebird school bus dealer could not repair at an
attractive
> price.
> > > >
> > > > Bottom line in my opinion is to get a coach that either
has been
> > > > maintained to a high standard or is offered at a price
where
> it can
> > > > be upgraded to that level.
> > > >
> > > > tom
> > > > 1982 FC35
> > > > Vernon Center,NY
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > At 09:29 PM 10/19/2005, you wrote:
> > > > >Mike, saw your post so thought I would add my 2 cents.
We (Ralph
> > > &
> > > > >I) looked at the 91 today and decided to pass. Won't
bore you
> > > with
> > > > >details, but far too many problems to correct including
new tires
> > > > >and probably batteries. Will keep the ear open for other
deals.
> > > > >Regards;
> > > > >Wallace & Faye Craig
> > > > >
> > > > >mbulriss <mbulriss@y...> wrote:
> > > > >Winston,
> > > > >
> > > > >Now that we see this, no wonder that owner scared you
with his
> > > tales
> > > > >of expensive repairs! Interesting sales strategy on his
part!
> > > > >
> > > > >As Scott and Ralph pointed out, we all need to be educated
> > > consumers
> > > > >and shop around if a quote seems to peg our BS sniffer
meter. I
> > > hope
> > > > >that first guy you ran into is still holding the rusty
exhaust
> > > > >pipe also!>
> > > > >
> > > > >Buddy Gregg service..... that explains a lot. I'll let
Ralph
> > > comment
> > > > >further on that when he gets back into town, but if
there's a way
> > > to
> > > > >make it expensive, Buddy's guys can do it. I asked them
to check
> > > for
> > > > >a suspected air bag leak in a specific bag. Their
response was
> > > > >$4,500-5,000 to replace all the air bags. They "wouldn't
just
> > > replace
> > > > >one bag". Of course they never bothered to evn look at it
either!
> > > > >Ralph freed up the sticky air valve for me at a Lone Star
> > > > >Birds rally with a $3 can of PB Blaster (I think it was).
An air
> > > > >dryer filter R&R at Buddy's was I think a $600 or 700
quote (3-4
> > > hours
> > > > >labor plus $100+ parts); versus the $32 filter and the
hour and a
> > > half
> > > > >I took to do it myself! I work slow.....
> > > > >
> > > > >Since the owner mentioned Cat, I will assume that the 91
in
> > > question
> > > > >was an SP model. Can't speak to that model specifically;
> maybe Hank
> > > > >or someone else can comment on the $1500 of labor to
change an
> > > > >alternator. I still can't fathom having to R&R the bumper
to
> get to
> > > > >the alternator, nor can I see it taking more than 2 hours
> total to
> > > get
> > > > >that done. Makes the PT Detroits seem much easier to work
on now!
> > > > >
> > > > >The comment about the Caterpiller shop having
to "fabricate tools
> > > > >because they do not generally work on Bluebirds and their
tools
> > > don't
> > > > >work" cracked me up. That's hilarious! Now I know
Harley's have
> > > some
> > > > >special "factory only" tools, but I've never found
anything
> on the
> > > > >Bird that wasn't readily available in my own set of "non-
> > > professional"
> > > > >tools, much less at a professional repair facility or
dealer
> shop.
> > > > >
> > > > >While the prior owner seems to have delighted in throwing
money
> > > away,
> > > > >you *can* find "competent" service facilities for more
reasonable
> > > > >prices. Some people only go to their auto dealers for oil
> changes.
> > > > >Some people enjoy bragging about how much things cost
them as
> > > > >a badge of their affulence. Most folks on these forums
are more
> > > > >concerned with doing things a little more economically,
and
> having
> > > it
> > > > >done right the first time.
> > > > >
> > > > >As was stated by several other members, you just have to
be a
> smart
> > > > >consumer and seek advice when you need it, before you
throw
> > > yourself
> > > > >to the wolves. I think the responses that you are seeing
here
> > > should
> > > > >indicate that there are other ways to be sure things are
fixed
> > > > >properly without just throwing $$$ at it with no
questions asked.
> > > > >Please don't be scared off by this one owner. I hope that
you are
> > > > >seeing by the responses here that the situation you have
here
> > > seems to
> > > > >be an anomoly rather than the rule.
> > > > >
> > > > >Also, before you buy, you might want to consider having
someone
> > > that
> > > > >really knows what they are doing, thoroughly check out the
> > > prospective
> > > > >Bird for you so that there are no expensive surprises.
> > > > >
> > > > >Good luck with your hunt!
> > > > >
> > > > >Mike Bulriss
> > > > >83 PT40 "Stagecoach" - For Sale
> > > > >91 PT40 "Texas Minivan"
> > > > >San Antonio, Texas
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, winston barrows
> > > > >
> > > > >wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > and re
> > > install is
> > > > >maybe 4 hours.>>
> > > > > > Hi, Ralph,
> > > > > > According to the owner, the book is three hours bumper
off and
> > > three
> > > > >hours bumper on for six hours. This is what he writes:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I took my unit to Buddy Gregg, in Knoxville TN for
service.
> > > $115.00
> > > > >per hour. the cost of parts will not be the shock. The
shock is
> > > > >getting something done, done right, and done to the high
> > > expectations
> > > > >that Bluebird owners possess. By way of example, shortly
after
> > > > >purchase, the fuel gauge went to "empty" even though it
was
> clearly
> > > > >full. Buddy Gregg traced the repair to the sensor located
at the
> > > top
> > > > >of the fuel tank. This is accessed through a door on the
floor of
> > > the
> > > > >coach, which was overlayed with 3/4 inch plywood and the
marble
> > > floor.
> > > > >the estimate to fix? $6-700, plus the $10.00 sending unit,
> but they
> > > > >could not replace the marble they would have to chisel
out of the
> > > > >floor. Everything in a Bluebird is like that. I asked
them to
> look
> > > at
> > > > >the alternator/battery system because the green dash light
> > > sometimes
> > > > >came on (which I now know is normal). They replaced the
> alternator.
> > > > >Cost of alternator (which I now do not believe had any
problems)
> > > $350;
> > > > >Cost of labor to replace alternator?
> > > > > > $1,500. why so expensive? because they had to take the
bumper
> > > off,
> > > > >and then take off all the belts and hoses in the engine.
three
> > > hours
> > > > >off, and three hours on ( that is just the labor for the
bumper).
> > > You
> > > > >don't even want to know what Caterpiller charges to look
at
> > > Bluebirds.
> > > > >Caterpiller likes dealing with businesses that own
tractors. Hell
> > > if
> > > > >you bill your tractor out for 2 or three hundred per hour,
> you can
> > > > >afford thousands to have a GED trained technician tell
you you
> > > need a
> > > > >fuel filter, and then hand you a bill for $2,000, (labor
at $130
> > > per
> > > > >hour) plus materials (a $75.00 filter which should have
been what
> > > was
> > > > >checked within the first hour). Of course, they have to
bill 2 to
> > > > >three hours to put paper on the floor of the coach so
they don't
> > > track
> > > > >in sludge, and then fabricate tools because they do not
generally
> > > work
> > > > >on Bluebirds and their tools don't work.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The original price you pay for a Bluebird doesn't
really
> matter
> > > > >much. It is the beginning of a process that is akin to
placing a
> > > > >vacuum cleaner on you wallet and watching the money
> dissapear. End
> > > of
> > > > >owner email text.
> > > > > > It seems to me that part of the responsibility of this
forum
> > > should
> > > > >be to educate folks on the scale of economy of Wanderlodge
> > > ownership.
> > > > >A lot of people think Buddy Gregg is a reputable
dealership
> and I'm
> > > > >not saying they aren't (especially since I've had no
experience
> > > with
> > > > >them). So my logic is if such a competent repair shop
costs so
> > > much,
> > > > >then what's it going to cost to go to the guy you'll
educate?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Ralph L. Fullenwider" wrote:
> > > > > > Hello Winston:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike B gave you some pretty good answers to your
question. And
> > > yes,
> > > > >some
> > > > > > repairs can be costly, no question there. Blow a 12R
22.5 tire
> > > and
> > > > >wheel
> > > > > > wells along with various other damage can occur.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As to the pricey alternator job, I agree it was pricey
but
> > > > >necessary? Even
> > > > > > removing the bumper the un install and re install is
maybe 4
> > > hours.
> > > > >Perhaps
> > > > > > something else happened, like a broken bolt that had
to be
> > > drilled out.
> > > > > > More than likely they 2 tech's on the job and charged
for each
> > > > >tech.? That
> > > > > > is not right either, in my book. It would be
interesting
> to have
> > > > >seen that
> > > > > > bill and what the write up was. No I am not defending
that
> > > shop, in
> > > > >fact I
> > > > > > would be dubious of it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Part of what this and other Forums were started for
was to
> help
> > > one
> > > > >another
> > > > > > as we can and also to list the "known" good shops
around the
> > > Country to
> > > > > > take the birds to and then on the other hand, to know
what
> > > shops not to
> > > > > > take them to. This Forum is intended to be a clearing
house of
> > > seeking
> > > > > > answers to problems and so forth. Even if your not
doing the
> > > repair
> > > > >work <
> > > > > > which, as Mike pointed out, will save one some money>
one can
> > > come
> > > > >to the
> > > > > > forum's to try to get a better idea of what to expect
when
> > > taking a
> > > > >Coach
> > > > > > to a shop. Information among us, is a powerful tool,
and one
> > > that
> > > > >can help
> > > > > > you recognize if that shop or repair facility is
running high
> > > on costs.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Repairs on Birds, Prevost, Newell or any high line
Coach will
> > > > >usually run
> > > > > > higher in some respects as they are far advanced
machines with
> > > more
> > > > > > amenities than most others. With that advancement,
comes the
> > > fact
> > > > >that a
> > > > > > tech has spent many an hour just learning the how the
systems
> > > work and
> > > > > > those systems change almost daily at times. So yes,
shops do
> > > ask for a
> > > > > > higher wage and get it because we are way past bailing
> wire and
> > > stickum.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In my shop, I charge the $75.00 per hour plus parts
rate and I
> > > work on
> > > > > > Birds. Though, as Mike told you, I have worked on
Vectra's and
> > > > >bounders and
> > > > > > Fleetwood products at the same price. I am also one
tech that
> > > > >prefers the
> > > > > > customer to be with me, if he/she so chooses as I am
> working on
> > > > >their coach.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bottom line is, information, data, questions and
answers
> on the
> > > > >forum gives
> > > > > > anyone a powerful tool, and most of us have learned to
use it
> > > along
> > > > >with
> > > > > > learning to do some things by our on hand. And in
truth,
> most of
> > > > >those that
> > > > > > do some of the work, learns the systems in them, end up
> having a
> > > > >greater
> > > > > > sense of Ownership and the resultant pride that goes
with.
> > > There is
> > > > >nothing
> > > > > > wrong with Birds and you won't find a better coach for
not
> only
> > > fun
> > > > >but
> > > > > > safety out on the road.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Safe travels,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
> > > > > > Ralph's RV Solutions, Duncan, Oklahoma
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> >
>
><<http://home.swbell.net/rlf47/index.htm>http://home.swbell.net/rlf4
7/index.htm>http://home.swbell.net/rlf47/i
> > > ndex.htm
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > SPONSORED LINKS
> > >
> > >
> > > Wanderlodge
> > >
> >
> ><<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Wanderlodge&w1=Wanderlodge&w2=Automotiv>http://groups.yahoo.co
m/gads?t=ms&k=Wanderlodge&w1=Wanderlodge&w2=Automotiv
> > >
> >
>
>e+maintenance&w3=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w4=Used+recreational+ve
hicles&w
> > > 5=Automotive+radiators&c=5&s=136&.sig=nBZ1FGfixNOUEuB2yfVDgg>
> > >
> > > Automotive
> > >
> >
> ><<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Automotive+maintenance&w1=Wanderlodge&w>http://groups.yahoo.co
m/gads?t=ms&k=Automotive+maintenance&w1=Wanderlodge&w
> > >
> >
>
>2=Automotive+maintenance&w3=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w4=Used+recr
eational
> > >
>
+vehicles&w5=Automotive+radiators&c=5&s=136&.sig=Bte5ugbSdf1A3FPqviwL
tA>
> > > maintenance
> > >
> > > Recreational
> > >
> >
> ><<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w1=Wanderlo>http://groups.yahoo.co
m/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w1=Wanderlo
> > >
> >
>
>dge&w2=Automotive+maintenance&w3=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w4=Used
+recreat
> > >
> >
>
>ional+vehicles&w5=Automotive+radiators&c=5&s=136&.sig=njw5dwOHe19C9X
wfcn4Qug
> > > > vehicle dealer
> > >
> > >
> > > Used
> > >
> >
> ><<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Used+recreational+vehicles&w1=Wanderlod>http://groups.yahoo.co
m/gads?t=ms&k=Used+recreational+vehicles&w1=Wanderlod
> > >
> >
>
>ge&w2=Automotive+maintenance&w3=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w4=Used+
recreati
> > >
> >
>
>onal+vehicles&w5=Automotive+radiators&c=5&s=136&.sig=ILeJOA1kAsLLcBT
ktvCNxQ>
> > > recreational vehicles
> > >
> > > Automotive
> > >
> >
> ><<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Automotive+radiators&w1=Wanderlodge&w2=>http://groups.yahoo.co
m/gads?t=ms&k=Automotive+radiators&w1=Wanderlodge&w2=
> > >
> >
>
>Automotive+maintenance&w3=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w4=Used+recrea
tional+v
> > >
> ehicles&w5=Automotive+radiators&c=5&s=136&.sig=RiaV7n-
e2egqiwvlh5zQWA>
> > > radiators
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > * Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum
> > >
> >
>
><<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum>http://groups.yahoo
.com/group/WanderlodgeForum>
>
> > >" on the web.
> > >
> > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> subject=Unsubscribe>
> > >
> > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> > >
> >
><<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms
/>
> > >Terms of Service.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------
------------
> > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > >
> > > a.. Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum" on the web.
> > >
> > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms
> > > of Service.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------
------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----------
> > >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > >
> > > * Visit your group
> >
> "<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum>WanderlodgeForum"
> on the web.
> > > *
> > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > *
> > >
> subject=Unsubscribe>WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> > >
> > > *
> > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> > >
> > >
> > >----------
> >
>

[randydupree2000]

good call wallace,you have to know when to walk away,if i don't get
the warm fuzzy feeling i walk..
randy dupree93wb in fl--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com,
Wallace Craig wrote:
>
> Mike, saw your post so thought I would add my 2 cents. We (Ralph
& I) looked at the 91 today and decided to pass. Won't bore you
with details, but far too many problems to correct including new
tires and probably batteries. Will keep the ear open for other
deals.
> Regards;
> Wallace & Faye Craig
>
> mbulriss <mbulriss@y...> wrote:
> Winston,
>
> Now that we see this, no wonder that owner scared you with his
tales
> of expensive repairs! Interesting sales strategy on his part!
>
> As Scott and Ralph pointed out, we all need to be educated
consumers
> and shop around if a quote seems to peg our BS sniffer meter. I
hope that first guy you ran into is still holding the rusty exhaust
> pipe also!>
>
> Buddy Gregg service..... that explains a lot. I'll let Ralph
comment
> further on that when he gets back into town, but if there's a way
to
> make it expensive, Buddy's guys can do it. I asked them to check
for
> a suspected air bag leak in a specific bag. Their response was
> $4,500-5,000 to replace all the air bags. They "wouldn't just
replace
> one bag". Of course they never bothered to evn look at it either!
> Ralph freed up the sticky air valve for me at a Lone Star
> Birds rally with a $3 can of PB Blaster (I think it was). An air
> dryer filter R&R at Buddy's was I think a $600 or 700 quote (3-4
hours
> labor plus $100+ parts); versus the $32 filter and the hour and a
half
> I took to do it myself! I work slow.....
>
> Since the owner mentioned Cat, I will assume that the 91 in
question
> was an SP model. Can't speak to that model specifically; maybe Hank
> or someone else can comment on the $1500 of labor to change an
> alternator. I still can't fathom having to R&R the bumper to get to
> the alternator, nor can I see it taking more than 2 hours total to
get
> that done. Makes the PT Detroits seem much easier to work on now!
>
> The comment about the Caterpiller shop having to "fabricate tools
> because they do not generally work on Bluebirds and their tools
don't
> work" cracked me up. That's hilarious! Now I know Harley's have
some
> special "factory only" tools, but I've never found anything on the
> Bird that wasn't readily available in my own set of "non-
professional"
> tools, much less at a professional repair facility or dealer shop.
>
> While the prior owner seems to have delighted in throwing money
away,
> you *can* find "competent" service facilities for more reasonable
> prices. Some people only go to their auto dealers for oil changes.
> Some people enjoy bragging about how much things cost them as
> a badge of their affulence. Most folks on these forums are more
> concerned with doing things a little more economically, and having
it
> done right the first time.
>
> As was stated by several other members, you just have to be a smart
> consumer and seek advice when you need it, before you throw
yourself
> to the wolves. I think the responses that you are seeing here
should
> indicate that there are other ways to be sure things are fixed
> properly without just throwing $$$ at it with no questions asked.
> Please don't be scared off by this one owner. I hope that you are
> seeing by the responses here that the situation you have here
seems to
> be an anomoly rather than the rule.
>
> Also, before you buy, you might want to consider having someone
that
> really knows what they are doing, thoroughly check out the
prospective
> Bird for you so that there are no expensive surprises.
>
> Good luck with your hunt!
>
> Mike Bulriss
> 83 PT40 "Stagecoach" - For Sale
> 91 PT40 "Texas Minivan"
> San Antonio, Texas
>
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, winston barrows
>
> wrote:
> >
> > install is
> maybe 4 hours.>>
> > Hi, Ralph,
> > According to the owner, the book is three hours bumper off and
three
> hours bumper on for six hours. This is what he writes:
> >
> > I took my unit to Buddy Gregg, in Knoxville TN for service.
$115.00
> per hour. the cost of parts will not be the shock. The shock is
> getting something done, done right, and done to the high
expectations
> that Bluebird owners possess. By way of example, shortly after
> purchase, the fuel gauge went to "empty" even though it was clearly
> full. Buddy Gregg traced the repair to the sensor located at the
top
> of the fuel tank. This is accessed through a door on the floor of
the
> coach, which was overlayed with 3/4 inch plywood and the marble
floor.
> the estimate to fix? $6-700, plus the $10.00 sending unit, but they
> could not replace the marble they would have to chisel out of the
> floor. Everything in a Bluebird is like that. I asked them to look
at
> the alternator/battery system because the green dash light
sometimes
> came on (which I now know is normal). They replaced the alternator.
> Cost of alternator (which I now do not believe had any problems)
$350;
> Cost of labor to replace alternator?
> > $1,500. why so expensive? because they had to take the bumper
off,
> and then take off all the belts and hoses in the engine. three
hours
> off, and three hours on ( that is just the labor for the bumper).
You
> don't even want to know what Caterpiller charges to look at
Bluebirds.
> Caterpiller likes dealing with businesses that own tractors. Hell
if
> you bill your tractor out for 2 or three hundred per hour, you can
> afford thousands to have a GED trained technician tell you you
need a
> fuel filter, and then hand you a bill for $2,000, (labor at $130
per
> hour) plus materials (a $75.00 filter which should have been what
was
> checked within the first hour). Of course, they have to bill 2 to
> three hours to put paper on the floor of the coach so they don't
track
> in sludge, and then fabricate tools because they do not generally
work
> on Bluebirds and their tools don't work.
> >
> > The original price you pay for a Bluebird doesn't really matter
> much. It is the beginning of a process that is akin to placing a
> vacuum cleaner on you wallet and watching the money dissapear. End
of
> owner email text.
> > It seems to me that part of the responsibility of this forum
should
> be to educate folks on the scale of economy of Wanderlodge
ownership.
> A lot of people think Buddy Gregg is a reputable dealership and I'm
> not saying they aren't (especially since I've had no experience
with
> them). So my logic is if such a competent repair shop costs so
much,
> then what's it going to cost to go to the guy you'll educate?
> >
> > "Ralph L. Fullenwider" wrote:
> > Hello Winston:
> >
> > Mike B gave you some pretty good answers to your question. And
yes,
> some
> > repairs can be costly, no question there. Blow a 12R 22.5 tire
and
> wheel
> > wells along with various other damage can occur.
> >
> > As to the pricey alternator job, I agree it was pricey but
> necessary? Even
> > removing the bumper the un install and re install is maybe 4
hours.
> Perhaps
> > something else happened, like a broken bolt that had to be
drilled out.
> > More than likely they 2 tech's on the job and charged for each
> tech.? That
> > is not right either, in my book. It would be interesting to have
> seen that
> > bill and what the write up was. No I am not defending that shop,
in
> fact I
> > would be dubious of it.
> >
> > Part of what this and other Forums were started for was to help
one
> another
> > as we can and also to list the "known" good shops around the
Country to
> > take the birds to and then on the other hand, to know what shops
not to
> > take them to. This Forum is intended to be a clearing house of
seeking
> > answers to problems and so forth. Even if your not doing the
repair
> work <
> > which, as Mike pointed out, will save one some money> one can
come
> to the
> > forum's to try to get a better idea of what to expect when
taking a
> Coach
> > to a shop. Information among us, is a powerful tool, and one that
> can help
> > you recognize if that shop or repair facility is running high on
costs.
> >
> > Repairs on Birds, Prevost, Newell or any high line Coach will
> usually run
> > higher in some respects as they are far advanced machines with
more
> > amenities than most others. With that advancement, comes the fact
> that a
> > tech has spent many an hour just learning the how the systems
work and
> > those systems change almost daily at times. So yes, shops do ask
for a
> > higher wage and get it because we are way past bailing wire and
stickum.
> >
> > In my shop, I charge the $75.00 per hour plus parts rate and I
work on
> > Birds. Though, as Mike told you, I have worked on Vectra's and
> bounders and
> > Fleetwood products at the same price. I am also one tech that
> prefers the
> > customer to be with me, if he/she so chooses as I am working on
> their coach.
> >
> > Bottom line is, information, data, questions and answers on the
> forum gives
> > anyone a powerful tool, and most of us have learned to use it
along
> with
> > learning to do some things by our on hand. And in truth, most of
> those that
> > do some of the work, learns the systems in them, end up having a
> greater
> > sense of Ownership and the resultant pride that goes with. There
is
> nothing
> > wrong with Birds and you won't find a better coach for not only
fun
> but
> > safety out on the road.
> >
> > Safe travels,
> >
> > Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
> > Ralph's RV Solutions, Duncan, Oklahoma
> > http://home.swbell.net/rlf47/index.htm
> >
> >
> >
> > At 06:50 PM 10/18/2005 +0000, you wrote:
> > >I was going to look at a '91 Bluebird Wanderlodge until a
gentleman
> > >told me a series of horror stories about repair bills on his.
Like if
> > >you need to change the alternator you have to remove the bumper
> > >and all the belts on the engine. He got a $1500 labor bill for
that.
> > >Question: are all Wanderlodges so expensive to repair? -winston
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> > Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum" on the web.
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[randydupree2000]

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Birtles"
wrote:
>that sounds about right to me..
randydupree 93wb in fl
> having dealt with Wallace and talking twice weekly or more with
Ralph
> once a week with Mike and a variety of others. Iwould believe that
> they are on the mark on their opinions on Wanderlodges, To state
the
> one would not buy a coach with any rust on body or frame you
better
> sell yours cause after 20 years there has to be rust somewhere
nature
> of the beast steel oxidizes how ever slowly and cannot be stopped
> just slowed down somewhat. As far as higher standards if Wallace
and
> ralph say there issues with the coach then there is.
> You certainly would not buy a vehicle supposed road ready and have
to
> buy new tires and batteries to start
> thats like buying a new to you vehicle and right off the bat
spending
> 4-5k on tires and batteries does not make economic sense
>
> Stephen 77fc35
>

[mbulriss]

I think we all can agree if Wallace and Ralph think there are issues,
then there are issues with that 91 versus the price. Wallace has
owned his 85 about forever, so he isn't a babe in the woods, *and* you
don't want to sit across the table negotiating with Wallace. It's an
art form for him!!

Mike Bulriss
83 PT40 "Stagecoach" - For Sale
91 PT40 "Txeas Minivan"
San Antonio, TX - where Stephen ought to go this weekend!


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "randydupree2000"
wrote:
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Birtles"
> wrote:
> >that sounds about right to me..
> randydupree 93wb in fl
> > having dealt with Wallace and talking twice weekly or more with
> Ralph
> > once a week with Mike and a variety of others. Iwould believe that
> > they are on the mark on their opinions on Wanderlodges, To state
> the
> > one would not buy a coach with any rust on body or frame you
> better
> > sell yours cause after 20 years there has to be rust somewhere
> nature
> > of the beast steel oxidizes how ever slowly and cannot be stopped
> > just slowed down somewhat. As far as higher standards if Wallace
> and
> > ralph say there issues with the coach then there is.
> > You certainly would not buy a vehicle supposed road ready and have
> to
> > buy new tires and batteries to start
> > thats like buying a new to you vehicle and right off the bat
> spending
> > 4-5k on tires and batteries does not make economic sense
> >
> > Stephen 77fc35
> >
>

[Ralph L. Fullenwider]

Hello everyone:

Just back in to home base from Texas where I had an excellent stay with the
Craig's. Their hospitality would put the old south traditions to task in
keeping up. Many thanks for a wonderful time and camaraderie, not to
mention the great breakfast this morning.

Well, this has certainly turned out to be some thread on repairs.

First to Tom: You know full well that tires and batteries do not constitute
a "deal breaker," on any coach. Those two items, for replacement, are a
given going in. We gotta get you "knowed up" on reading between the lines,
and you should also know, by experience, that there had to be more than
just those two items.

Folks, the inspections I make generate a 20 page report on any given Coach.
And that report was made up by a group of Bird owners. Now then, in going
over, under, around and through a Wanderlodge or BMC, almost everything is
checked or looked at. BUT, more the point, as the inspection unfolds, one
starts keeping a running tally of what it is going to take, money wise, to
do any repairs on items found wanting. When you get to a point of decision
time, you have to add the cost of the calculated repair work to the cost
of the coach, THEN decide if it is worth the value of that coach or if it
puts the value of the coach "up side down."

Can it be repaired, of course it can. Question then becomes on how far your
willing to go to get a Coach "road worthy" then add the tires and batteries
to that cost as well. So when the "guesstimated" cost of repair work that
is going to "have" to be done reaches the several thousands, not including
the tires and batteries ( since that is a given in most cases) it becomes
time to walk away to look another day. It is of my humble opinion, that
when the Coach price is in excess of 100K, for instance, that you should
not have to put in thousands of dollars more, again before tires and
batteries, just to get a coach back to where it should have been at the age
the coach is. Some dings, paint scrapes, rock chips in the windshield and
so forth is "normal" wear and tear when looking at a used coach. A bent
bumper is not a deal breaker. A bad water heater is not a deal breaker.
Almost anyone item in a used coach is not a deal breaker, but put them all
together, add them up, then what do you have???

Scott, in Ruby, you have a darn good coach, yes she has had issues, some
not expected to be sure, and you have done it right, no question there. BUT
you also had a good solid coach to build upon and worth the repairs you
have done to her. She is now ready to "twist her any way you want to," for
years to come. My hat is off to you, and you certainly have bragging rites
for sure.

Sorry Guys and Gals, I have made this much longer that I intended to. Mike,
your right about Wallace in that I would not want to be at an arbitration
table across from him, he is formidable and very learned when it comes to
Bird's.

Safe travels,

Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
Ralph's RV Solutions, Duncan, Oklahoma
http://home.swbell.net/rlf47/index.htm



At 01:29 AM 10/21/2005 +0000, you wrote:
>I think we all can agree if Wallace and Ralph think there are issues,
>then there are issues with that 91 versus the price. Wallace has
>owned his 85 about forever, so he isn't a babe in the woods, *and* you
>don't want to sit across the table negotiating with Wallace. It's an
>art form for him!!
>
>Mike Bulriss
>83 PT40 "Stagecoach" - For Sale
>91 PT40 "Txeas Minivan"
>San Antonio, TX - where Stephen ought to go this weekend!
>
>
>

[erniecarpet@...]

sounds like there were more then just cosmetic issues with that coach.
wonder why its not on the mr oliver's website? ernie-83pt40- full tank of fuel,
ready to head HOME!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]