Should we even be looking at Old Birds?

[bumpersbird]

The labor rates are the same no matter what year coach you buy, and
they can add up FAST! Just keep hunting and you'll find a great coach
that isn't in need of a full frame up restoration. Leroy is correct,
if your fixing up an old coach paint is expensive, so try and find
one with good paint. Good paint is an indicator of the care and
attention that was given to the coach. That's not written in stone
but it is generally true. Tires that are not over a few years old
same rule. These are general maintainance items. If the owner keep up
with these items chances are the coach is going to be a good starter.
It is a buyers market now, so take some time and buy with your head
and not your heart. I took me years to find my first coach, and even
in todays market I paid less for it 2 1/2 years ago than it's worth
today at wholesale.

Kurt Horvath
95 PT-42 WLWB
10AC




--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bubblerboy64"
wrote:
>
> Just to agree with Leroy. When looking at coaches last year I did
> see several which would have needed tires, batteries and a paint
job.
> I did not even make an offer on something in that class. It only
> insults the seller and gets you no where. I remember one which was
> for sale buy a nice older gentleman who hated to sell his coach. He
> was asking $13,000. The tires, well, I wouldn't have driven around
> the block on them. The paint was ruff and the rest of the coach was
> average. Who knows what the coach was like underneath. I really
> don't think I would have taken it if he would have given it to me,
> but he did eventually sell it. For what I have no clue. You will
be
> able to find a decent FC for $25K and you should be able to find a
> real gem for $30k (in my opinion) remember they are only worth what
> the seller and buyer agree on.
> John Heckman
> central Pa
> 1973 FC
> >
> > Leroy, I think your on the right path. Certainly there are
> coaches
> > out there that meet your "wish list". Keep in mind that you are a
> lot
> > better buying a "good" one and spending a little more up front
then
> > buying one that needs a lot of work. Look for one that was
driven
> > and maintained and that shows that it was obviously loved. Keep
in
> > mind that you will spend additional money on the coach to make it
> > yours. I paid just under 20K for my 1973 and I have added at
least
> > another 10K to that. I have none a fair amount that didn't have
to
> > be done but what I wanted to do to make it the way I wanted it.
> That
> > is my personality. Try to buy one with recent tires and
batteries
> or
> > factor that into the negotiation. Old tires (ten years max) are
> not
> > to be trusted even if the tread is new. It takes big bucks to
> paint
> > a BB so if the paint is not good and that bothers you consider
> that.
> > So good luck and let us know what you are looking at and we will
no
> > doubt give our opinions.
> > John Heckman
> > central Pa
> > 1973 FC
> > > Wow tons of great feedback and fast! This forum definately
seems
> > > very helpful, and really helps me feel more comfortable about
> > making
> > > a step toward an older coach, and knowing i have a team to help
> me
> > > figure things out.
> > >
> > > I think that I'd be better at actually doing the
> > repairs/maintenance
> > > than troubleshooting problems at least on the mechancial stuff,
> > until
> > > I got to know things a bit more.
> > >
> > > A bit more background on us. We're late 20s, early 30s, with 2
> > girls
> > > under 3 years old. We currently travel about 1 big trip a year
> and
> > 2-
> > > 4 more smaller weekend trips. We expect that will increase
again
> > as
> > > the girls get older (read out of diapers and crib).
> > >
> > > I work in IT with computers for a living, and have done nearly
> > every
> > > type of work around the house and my RV, with only limited
> > mechanical
> > > work.
> > >
> > > I think we'd like an 83 or 84 FC based on all i read. They
have
> > the
> > > power of the Turbo, and also air suspension, but still aren't
too
> > > pricey. We want the diesel engine and the diesel generator.
We
> > want
> > > the one with twin couches up front, and a double bed in the
back.
> > >
> > > I dont have an exact budget at the moment. Obviously the less
I
> > > could spend the better, but I want the most reliable coach I
can
> > get
> > > too. I would like to spend near $20K.
> > >
> > > Thanks for all the great feedback. I had heard a lot of good
> stuff
> > > about this place from the RV.NET group, and it definately seems
> > like
> > > you've got a great group.
> > >
> > >
> > > We actually went and checked out an 83 this weekend. Floor
plan
> > was
> > > cool, perfect. But it left me with a lot of questions. Here's
> an
> > > excerpt from what I wrote on RV.NEt about it.
> > >
> > > "Late last night I found a deal on an old 1983 Wanderlodge an
> hour
> > or
> > > so south of me. We've been thinking for a few years that it
would
> > be
> > > very nice to have an old Bird. This deal seemed too good to be
> > true,
> > > $12,000. I'd never personally been inside a vintage bird, so i
> > > figured now is a good time to go see if they'd really be a good
> fit
> > > for us. The seller was selling on behalf of his brother and
> didn't
> > > know much about it.
> > >
> > > Engine started right up, but the smell of diesel was extremely
> > strong
> > > outside the front end, passenger side. Is that normal?
> > >
> > > The diesel genset didn't want to start up, he thought it was
fed
> by
> > a
> > > separate tank, but I dont think that is the case.
> > >
> > > Outside was rough, definately needed a new coat of paint.
Inside
> > was
> > > decent. Was nice being in an older unit with not a signle sign
of
> a
> > > leak. Much of the uppolstry needed to be replaced, couchs,
> chairs,
> > > dinnettes. And the carpet was ugh-riginal.
> > >
> > > 12V electrical system was great for lights, but nearly
everything
> > on
> > > the dash was dead. Gauges seemed to work, but switches were all
> > > useless. A/C, Heat etc didnt work.
> > >
> > > As for the 110V stuff, I couldn't test with no genset and no
> shore
> > > power.
> > >
> > > Awnings needed some help, but I was about done by the time I
got
> to
> > > them, that I didn't even check them out.
> > >
> > > Man, this thing could be nice to someone who wants to put a bit
> of
> > > time into it, just not sure I'm really up to it at this point
in
> > the
> > > game.
> > >
> > > Question is, should I lowball this guy? And see if I can get it
> at
> > a
> > > price where I could pay someone else to fix the broken "stuff"?
> Any
> > > factor sound like sign of something much worse?
> > > "
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jack & Donna Smith"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Old Bird or Newer?? Well, as some say, "You Pays Your Money,
> and
> > > > Takes Your Choice"...
> > > > Our 1973 Bird lacks some of the items that are standard on
> Newer
> > > > coaches, but also lack some of the headaches..What is
> a "Sporlian
> > > > Valve", anyway, or "Air Operated Sreps"?
> > > > As my old pappy said, "What ain't there, cant break".
> > > > Some costs are less, such as my yearly DMV fee of $67,(even
> here
> > in
> > > > the Land of Arnold), and lower Insurance costs, and it
afforded
> > me
> > > > my unique method of financing, One Payment & walk away with
the
> > > Pink
> > > > Slip..
> > > > But make no mistake, repairs may be necessary, and as Jeff
> Miller
> > > > said, "Pay Now, oor Pay Later".
> > > > The old coaches are much simpler and therefore easier (read
> > Cheaper)
> > > > to maintain.
> > > > The great thing about Bluebirds is that they practically
never
> > wear
> > > > out. A lot of the original items on our coach are still
> working,
> > > > while I imagine my old "Sticks & Staples Tioga is probably in
> > that
> > > > Big KOA in the Sky...
> > > > We also like to visit the various RV dealers and look over
the
> > > > current crop.. It is real interesting to see the look on the
> > > > salesmans face when he asks us if we have an RV and we
> > reply, "Yes,
> > > > a Bluebird". We are usually left alone after that......
> > > > Jack Smith
> > > > 1973FC31
> > > > SoCal
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Michael"
<mike.putz@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I also agree with everything I've read here. I own a 63
> > Bluebird
> > > > > conversion and just recently purchased a 78FC35. I choose
> this
> > > > bus
> > > > > to upgrade to a diesel, leveling jacks, bigger generator,
> > etc..
> > > I
> > > > > did not want air bags as I like to go off road often with a
> > > > trailer
> > > > > full of quads and dirt bikes. I wanted something tough
with
> > > > ground
> > > > > clearance. I had the pleasure of driving my friends 90SP36
> > from
> > > > > Texas to Arizona not long ago. It was very nice, plush,
> fancy,
> > > > and
> > > > > strong with the 300 HP Cat. However, it was just not for
> me.
> > So
> > > > old
> > > > > or new.. you can't go wrong with these busses. I'm a "bang-
> for-
> > > > buck"
> > > > > kind of guy on a small budget so the FC's were perfect!
> > > > > Just another 2 cents...
> > > > >
> > > > > Michael
> > > > > 78FC35 "Putz'n Around"
> > > > > Mesa, Az
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bubblerboy64"
> >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Leroy, I think everything that has been said is on
target.
> > You
> > > > > > certainly want the best that you can buy. No doubt the
> later
> > > > FC's
> > > > > > are considerably improved and being newer should in
theory
> at
> > > > least
> > > > > > be in better condition. That being said there is always
the
> > > > debate
> > > > > as
> > > > > > to how much a guy should spend on an FC before he
considers
> a
> > > > PT. I
> > > > > > have never ridden in or experienced a late model FC but
my
> > > > thoughts
> > > > > > are if I was going to spend upwards of 50K would I add to
> it
> > a
> > > > > little
> > > > > > (or a lot) and go with a PT. These are things you have
to
> > > > decide.
> > > > > I
> > > > > > was there a year ago and I am certain all of us would
agree
> > > that
> > > > > you
> > > > > > should invest in some travel and time to investigate a
> number
> > > of
> > > > > > these coaches before you buy. I think personal
preference
> > and
> > > > how
> > > > > > you are going to use the coach are the critical things to
> > > > > consider.
> > > > > > I love my old 1973 but if I was intending to make a lot
of
> > long
> > > > > runs
> > > > > > I would consider moving up. My coach is also smallish for
> > more
> > > > then
> > > > > > two. I consider it like buying any vehicle you want to
> match
> > it
> > > > to
> > > > > > your use as well as your pocket book.
> > > > > > John Heckman
> > > > > > central Pa
> > > > > > 1973 FC
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In
> WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "michaelhohnstein"
> > > > > > > <MHOHNSTEIN@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In
WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "campingleroy"
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have experience with quite a few mid 80s Birds,
> buying
> > > > > selling
> > > > > > > > and "fixing on." My 83 rear bath suits the wife and
I
> > real
> > > > > well
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > I wouldn't trade it for a triple slide anything. Not
> > even
> > > a
> > > > > > Newell.
> > > > > > > > That being said, I recommend 87 and newer FCs for
those
> > who
> > > > > wish
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > get into a vintage Bird. The engine and accessories
are
> > > much
> > > > > > easier
> > > > > > > > to maintain due to improved design engine cover and
> swing
> > > > > > radiator.
> > > > > > > > 86 and older are a pain to adjust valves on, and
that's
> > not
> > > > > good.
> > > > > > > > Moreover the 87 up has a charge air cooler and 300
hp.,
> a
> > > > very
> > > > > > > > welcome feature when trying to get down the road.
The
> ZF
> > > > trans
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > great piece and features OD.
> > > > > > > > My 83 has been upgraded to 87 specs. Fiberglass
engine
> > > > cover,
> > > > > > > > charge air cooler and inlet air enhancements. The
> > Allison
> > > > is
> > > > > > > backed
> > > > > > > > by a drive line OD transmission in front of the Jake
> > > > retarder.
> > > > > > > > I was able to do all this 'stuff' to my Bird due the
> line
> > > of
> > > > > work
> > > > > > > > I'm in. Much easier to just pay a little more and
get
> > the
> > > > > newer
> > > > > > > > version, and it's all done for you.
> > > > > > > > MH
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > My wife and I really like a lot of things about
> vintage
> > > > > birds,
> > > > > > > > > including the safety, reliability, and durability.
I
> > > > think a
> > > > > > mid
> > > > > > > > 80s
> > > > > > > > > FC would be about the best fit for us and our
> budget.
> > > The
> > > > > one
> > > > > > > > with a
> > > > > > > > > double bed in the back, and 2 couches up front.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I dont mind tinkering and working on a lot of
> > projects.
> > > > Our
> > > > > > > > current
> > > > > > > > > coach is a 1989 Class C, I had to rebuild the
entire
> > cab
> > > > over
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > that.
> > > > > > > > > But I'm by no means a mechanic. I do consider
myself
> > to
> > > > be
> > > > > > very
> > > > > > > > > mechanically inclined though. I can follow
> directions
> > > > really
> > > > > > > > well, if
> > > > > > > > > there are procedures on doing projects though. And
> > based
> > > > on
> > > > > > what
> > > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > know or believe things to cost, I can't afford to
> have
> > a
> > > > > > mechanic
> > > > > > > > do
> > > > > > > > > every bit of maintenance these things need. The
> > > > electrical
> > > > > > > > problems
> > > > > > > > > concern me much less than mechanical ones.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > My question is, should I steer away from these old
> > > birds?
> > > > Is
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > majority of the work something that an average
person
> > > > could
> > > > > do
> > > > > > > > given
> > > > > > > > > patience and research/reading? Don't want to get
> > myself
> > > > in
> > > > > > over
> > > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > > head.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I would DEFINATELY want to hire someone to look at
a
> > unit
> > > > > > before
> > > > > > > > > purchasing, to make sure I understood what I was
> > getting
> > > > > myself
> > > > > > > > into.
> > > > > > > > > If I get to that point, I'll be asking here for
> > > > > recommendations
> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > who.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I would just say this and that is buy from a person who
> > loves
> > > > his
> > > > > > old
> > > > > > > coach! Pay a little bit more but then most of the work
> has
> > > > been
> > > > > > done.
> > > > > > > As far as Vlv adjustment that only happens every 50,000
> > miles
> > > > and
> > > > > > my
> > > > > > > coach has only had that done two times. Yep and beside
my
> > old
> > > > > coach
> > > > > > > gets 10 mpg (1978) and the newer ones well we all know
> they
> > > > were
> > > > > > made
> > > > > > > for cheap fuel prices in mind. Jon
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>