Federal smog laws GregO'Connor

[Stephen Birtles]

Well so much for visiting California



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Forman"
<scottforman75@...> wrote:
>
> Are you telling me that someday a govt bureaucrat is going to show up
> and tell me my bus cannot be driven and is now worthless unless I
> spend 10's of thousands on a re-power of some kind???
>
> Scott Forman
> 86 PT38
> Memphis
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Fogleman"
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello BB family, regarding the emission laws rthere are compliance
> date for
> > various engine years , And also if the engines cant meet the
> compliance
> > you will need to repower are scrap , This all started with the
> federal
> > government. Makeing california clean up the Air quality and if
> California
> > cant Comply.The Federal Government will hold funding. That
> California needs
> > for Road work and etc,This is why Arnold the Governor and AQMD and
> all the
> > other agencies have such a push on getting the Air cleaned up.
> Go to this
> > site for more info http://WWW.arb.ca.gov
> >
> > Chris E. Fogleman
> >
> > Complete Coach Works
> >
> > Alternative Fuel Sales Manager
> >
> > Cell: (951) 836-6520
> >
> > http://www.thelegacyreturns.com <http://www.thelegacyreturns.com/>
> >
> > cfogleman@
> >
> > cfogleman@
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Bradner
> > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 1:16 PM
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Federal smog laws GregO'Connor
> >
> >
> >
> > I know, and Greg is certainly correct when he says that California
> is
> > employing such standards quicker than Federal, but the question is
> about
> > something in Federal (or California, for that matter) rules that
> will make
> > us comply with smog rules (which would mean repowering, or junking).
> >
> > On 12/7/2008 at 8:28 AM Pete Masterson wrote:
> >
> > >FWIW, ULSD is the only diesel sold in CA for the last couple of
> years...
> > >
> > >Pete Masterson
> > >'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
> > >aeonix1@mac. com
> > >On the road at Newberry Springs, CA
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >On Dec 7, 2008, at 5:31 AM, Don Bradner wrote:
> > >
> > >> Greg, can you provide a cite for this? I spent extensive time
> with
> > >> Google and could not come up with any federal requirements that
> did
> > >> not involve one of the following:
> > >>
> > >> New engines
> > >> ULSD fuel
> > >>
> > >> Neither of those would adversely affect my coach, so I would
> like
> > >> to know if you have some hard-to-find information concerning
> > >> federal rules that would, in fact, affect vintage stuff?
> > >>
> > >> Don Bradner
> > >> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
> > >> Posting today by satellite from Gladewater, TX
> > >> My location: http://www.bbirdmaps.com/user2.cfm?user=1
> > >>
> > >> On 12/6/2008 at 5:03 PM timvasqz wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Diesel
> > >>> motorhomes with "private registration" are exempt from many CA
> smog
> > >>> requirements but will be hit blind sighted when fed regulations
> take
> > >>> hold.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ------------------------------------
> > >>
> > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >------------------------------------
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

[Don Bradner]

Chris, because of your position you should know more about this than any of us,
but as far as I can tell, the below is FUD. Please refer to an exact cite, not a
massive website, if you know differently.

What I find is that the ARB is meeting next week, possibly to adopt new
regulations which can be found at
http://www.arb.ca.gov/regact/2008/truckbus08/appa.pdf

Pertinent info:

"Adopt new section 2025, in title 13, article 4.5, chapter 1, California Code of
Regulations
(CCR) to read as follows: (Note that the entire text of section 2025 set forth
below is
new language proposed to be added to the California Code of Regulations.)
Section 2025. Regulation to Reduce Emissions of Diesel Particulate Matter,
Oxides of Nitrogen and Other Criteria Pollutants, and Greenhouse
Gases from In-Use Heavy-Duty Diesel-Fueled Vehicles"

"© Exemptions
This regulation does not apply to:"

"(11) Motor homes for non-commercial private use."

Please, please tell me how I am misreading this.

On 12/7/2008 at 1:58 PM Chris Fogleman wrote:

>Hello BB family, regarding the emission laws rthere are compliance date
>for
>various engine years , And also if the engines cant meet the compliance
>you will need to repower are scrap , This all started with the federal
>government. Makeing california clean up the Air quality and if California
>cant Comply.The Federal Government will hold funding. That California needs
>for Road work and etc,This is why Arnold the Governor and AQMD and all the
>other agencies have such a push on getting the Air cleaned up. Go to
>this
>site for more info http://WWW.arb.ca.gov
>
>Chris E. Fogleman
>
>Complete Coach Works
>
>Alternative Fuel Sales Manager
>
>Cell: (951) 836-6520
>
>http://www.thelegacyreturns.com <http://www.thelegacyreturns.com/>
>
>cfogleman@...
>
>cfogleman@...
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
>From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
>[mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Bradner
>Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 1:16 PM
>To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Federal smog laws GregO'Connor
>
>
>
>I know, and Greg is certainly correct when he says that California is
>employing such standards quicker than Federal, but the question is about
>something in Federal (or California, for that matter) rules that will make
>us comply with smog rules (which would mean repowering, or junking).
>
>On 12/7/2008 at 8:28 AM Pete Masterson wrote:
>
>>FWIW, ULSD is the only diesel sold in CA for the last couple of years...
>>
>>Pete Masterson
>>'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
>>aeonix1@mac. com
>>On the road at Newberry Springs, CA
>>
>>
>>
>>On Dec 7, 2008, at 5:31 AM, Don Bradner wrote:
>>
>>> Greg, can you provide a cite for this? I spent extensive time with
>>> Google and could not come up with any federal requirements that did
>>> not involve one of the following:
>>>
>>> New engines
>>> ULSD fuel
>>>
>>> Neither of those would adversely affect my coach, so I would like
>>> to know if you have some hard-to-find information concerning
>>> federal rules that would, in fact, affect vintage stuff?
>>>
>>> Don Bradner
>>> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
>>> Posting today by satellite from Gladewater, TX
>>> My location: http://www.bbirdmaps.com/user2.cfm?user=1
>>>
>>> On 12/6/2008 at 5:03 PM timvasqz wrote:
>>>
>>>> Diesel
>>>> motorhomes with "private registration" are exempt from many CA smog
>>>> requirements but will be hit blind sighted when fed regulations take
>>>> hold.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------------
>>
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>

[Curt Sprenger]

Don,

I read the same information. Our old coaches are exempt.

On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 2:38 PM, Don Bradner <"bluethunder@arcatapet.com"> wrote:

Chris, because of your position you should know more about this than any of us, but as far as I can tell, the below is FUD. Please refer to an exact cite, not a massive website, if you know differently.



What I find is that the ARB is meeting next week, possibly to adopt new regulations which can be found at http://www.arb.ca.gov/regact/2008/truckbus08/appa.pdf



Pertinent info:



"Adopt new section 2025, in title 13, article 4.5, chapter 1, California Code of Regulations

(CCR) to read as follows: (Note that the entire text of section 2025 set forth below is

new language proposed to be added to the California Code of Regulations.)

Section 2025. Regulation to Reduce Emissions of Diesel Particulate Matter,

Oxides of Nitrogen and Other Criteria Pollutants, and Greenhouse

Gases from In-Use Heavy-Duty Diesel-Fueled Vehicles"



"© Exemptions

This regulation does not apply to:"



"(11) Motor homes for non-commercial private use."



Please, please tell me how I am misreading this.

On 12/7/2008 at 1:58 PM Chris Fogleman wrote:



>Hello BB family, regarding the emission laws rthere are compliance date

>for

>various engine years , And also if the engines cant meet the compliance

>you will need to repower are scrap , This all started with the federal

>government. Makeing california clean up the Air quality and if California

>cant Comply.The Federal Government will hold funding. That California needs

>for Road work and etc,This is why Arnold the Governor and AQMD and all the

>other agencies have such a push on getting the Air cleaned up. Go to

>this

>site for more info WWW.arb.ca.gov

>

>Chris E. Fogleman

>

>Complete Coach Works

>

>Alternative Fuel Sales Manager

>

>Cell: (951) 836-6520

>

>www.thelegacyreturns.com <http://www.thelegacyreturns.com/>

>

>"cfogleman%40completecoach.com"

>

>"cfogleman%40bluebirdcoachworks.com"

>

>

>

>

> _____

>

>From: "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"

>[mailto:"WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"] On Behalf Of Don Bradner

>Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 1:16 PM

>To: "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"

>Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Federal smog laws GregO'Connor

>

>

>

>I know, and Greg is certainly correct when he says that California is

>employing such standards quicker than Federal, but the question is about

>something in Federal (or California, for that matter) rules that will make

>us comply with smog rules (which would mean repowering, or junking).

>

>On 12/7/2008 at 8:28 AM Pete Masterson wrote:

>

>>FWIW, ULSD is the only diesel sold in CA for the last couple of years...

>>

>>Pete Masterson

>>'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42

>>aeonix1@mac. com

>>On the road at Newberry Springs, CA

>>

>>

>>

>>On Dec 7, 2008, at 5:31 AM, Don Bradner wrote:

>>

>>> Greg, can you provide a cite for this? I spent extensive time with

>>> Google and could not come up with any federal requirements that did

>>> not involve one of the following:

>>>

>>> New engines

>>> ULSD fuel

>>>

>>> Neither of those would adversely affect my coach, so I would like

>>> to know if you have some hard-to-find information concerning

>>> federal rules that would, in fact, affect vintage stuff?

>>>

>>> Don Bradner

>>> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"

>>> Posting today by satellite from Gladewater, TX

>>> My location: www.bbirdmaps.com/user2.cfm?user=1

>>>

>>> On 12/6/2008 at 5:03 PM timvasqz wrote:

>>>

>>>> Diesel

>>>> motorhomes with "private registration" are exempt from many CA smog

>>>> requirements but will be hit blind sighted when fed regulations take

>>>> hold.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> ------------------------------------

>>>

>>> Yahoo! Groups Links

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>

>>

>>------------------------------------

>>

>>Yahoo! Groups Links

>>

>>

>>

--
Curt Sprenger
1987 PT38 8V92 "MacAttack Racing"
Anaheim Hills, CA

[Chris Fogleman]

True im sure i do I will narrow it down for you Thanks

Chris E. Fogleman

Complete Coach Works

Alternative Fuel Sales Manager

Cell: (951) 836-6520

www.thelegacyreturns.com

"cfogleman@completecoach.com"

"cfogleman@bluebirdcoachworks.com"

,

---

From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Bradner
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:38 PM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [WanderlodgeForum] Federal smog laws GregO'Connor

Chris, because of your position you should know more about this than any of us, but as far as I can tell, the below is FUD. Please refer to an exact cite, not a massive website, if you know differently.

What I find is that the ARB is meeting next week, possibly to adopt new regulations which can be found at http://www.arb.ca.gov/regact/2008/truckbus08/appa.pdf

Pertinent info:

"Adopt new section 2025, in title 13, article 4.5, chapter 1, California Code of Regulations
(CCR) to read as follows: (Note that the entire text of section 2025 set forth below is
new language proposed to be added to the California Code of Regulations.)
Section 2025. Regulation to Reduce Emissions of Diesel Particulate Matter,
Oxides of Nitrogen and Other Criteria Pollutants, and Greenhouse
Gases from In-Use Heavy-Duty Diesel-Fueled Vehicles"

"© Exemptions
This regulation does not apply to:"

"(11) Motor homes for non-commercial private use."

Please, please tell me how I am misreading this.

On 12/7/2008 at 1:58 PM Chris Fogleman wrote:

>Hello BB family, regarding the emission laws rthere are compliance date
>for
>various engine years , And also if the engines cant meet the compliance
>you will need to repower are scrap , This all started with the federal
>government. Makeing california clean up the Air quality and if California
>cant Comply.The Federal Government will hold funding. That California needs
>for Road work and etc,This is why Arnold the Governor and AQMD and all the
>other agencies have such a push on getting the Air cleaned up. Go to
>this
>site for more info http://WWW.arb.ca.gov
>
>Chris E. Fogleman
>
>Complete Coach Works
>
>Alternative Fuel Sales Manager
>
>Cell: (951) 836-6520
>
>http://www.thelegacyreturns.com <http://www.thelegacyreturns.com/>
>
>"cfogleman%40completecoach.com"
>
>"cfogleman%40bluebirdcoachworks.com"
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
>From: "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"
>[mailto:"WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"] On Behalf Of Don Bradner
>Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 1:16 PM
>To: "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"
>Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Federal smog laws GregO'Connor
>
>
>
>I know, and Greg is certainly correct when he says that California is
>employing such standards quicker than Federal, but the question is about
>something in Federal (or California, for that matter) rules that will make
>us comply with smog rules (which would mean repowering, or junking).
>
>On 12/7/2008 at 8:28 AM Pete Masterson wrote:
>
>>FWIW, ULSD is the only diesel sold in CA for the last couple of years...
>>
>>Pete Masterson
>>'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
>>aeonix1@mac. 40mac.com> com
>>On the road at Newberry Springs, CA
>>
>>
>>
>>On Dec 7, 2008, at 5:31 AM, Don Bradner wrote:
>>
>>> Greg, can you provide a cite for this? I spent extensive time with
>>> Google and could not come up with any federal requirements that did
>>> not involve one of the following:
>>>
>>> New engines
>>> ULSD fuel
>>>
>>> Neither of those would adversely affect my coach, so I would like
>>> to know if you have some hard-to-find information concerning
>>> federal rules that would, in fact, affect vintage stuff?
>>>
>>> Don Bradner
>>> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
>>> Posting today by satellite from Gladewater, TX
>>> My location: http://www.bbirdmaps.com/user2.cfm?user=1
>>>
>>> On 12/6/2008 at 5:03 PM timvasqz wrote:
>>>
>>>> Diesel
>>>> motorhomes with "private registration" are exempt from many CA smog
>>>> requirements but will be hit blind sighted when fed regulations take
>>>> hold.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------------
>>
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>

[timvasqz]

Curt, there are more than 8 new programs and requirements. Nov 11
CARB meeting is only one more to make 9. No diesel engine , even a
lawn tractor is exempt from excessive smoking now. Motorhomes may
be exempt from Mandated Testing programs but not emissions and road
side review.


I can guarantee that a puff of smoke from a motorhome or pickup
truck is going to send a pissed off trucker to the 5 digit #smog (in
California from most cell phones) reporting line.

the retrofit filter ccw has is between $10,000 and 20,000 per
schoolbus (or who ever did the Alhambra busses charged that). The
filter only buys time as some of the programs have other
requirements. The Federal emissions programs are only accelerated
in California and comming to a state near FortValley soon. I wish
CCW was public, been just dollar cost averaging last years picks.
would be nice to bet on a winner.

I posted Links earlier but my association got Tim moderated and I
guess my post didnt pass, maybe this one will be held up also. Tim
shouldnt leave his Yahoo account signed on.
GregoryO'Connor of Tim$Greg
94ptCa

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Curt Sprenger"
wrote:
>
> Don,
>
> I read the same information. Our old coaches are exempt.
>
> On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 2:38 PM, Don Bradner wrote:
>
> > Chris, because of your position you should know more about
this than any
> > of us, but as far as I can tell, the below is FUD. Please refer
to an exact
> > cite, not a massive website, if you know differently.
> >
> > What I find is that the ARB is meeting next week, possibly to
adopt new
> > regulations which can be found at
> > http://www.arb.ca.gov/regact/2008/truckbus08/appa.pdf
> >
> > Pertinent info:
> >
> > "Adopt new section 2025, in title 13, article 4.5, chapter 1,
California
> > Code of Regulations
> > (CCR) to read as follows: (Note that the entire text of section
2025 set
> > forth below is
> > new language proposed to be added to the California Code of
Regulations.)
> > Section 2025. Regulation to Reduce Emissions of Diesel
Particulate Matter,
> > Oxides of Nitrogen and Other Criteria Pollutants, and Greenhouse
> > Gases from In-Use Heavy-Duty Diesel-Fueled Vehicles"
> >
> > "© Exemptions
> > This regulation does not apply to:"
> >
> > "(11) Motor homes for non-commercial private use."
> >
> > Please, please tell me how I am misreading this.
> >
> >
> > On 12/7/2008 at 1:58 PM Chris Fogleman wrote:
> >
> > >Hello BB family, regarding the emission laws rthere are
compliance date
> > >for
> > >various engine years , And also if the engines cant meet the
compliance
> > >you will need to repower are scrap , This all started with the
federal
> > >government. Makeing california clean up the Air quality and if
California
> > >cant Comply.The Federal Government will hold funding. That
California
> > needs
> > >for Road work and etc,This is why Arnold the Governor and AQMD
and all the
> > >other agencies have such a push on getting the Air cleaned up.
Go to
> > >this
> > >site for more info http://WWW.arb.ca.gov
> > >
> > >Chris E. Fogleman
> > >
> > >Complete Coach Works
> > >
> > >Alternative Fuel Sales Manager
> > >
> > >Cell: (951) 836-6520
> > >
> > >http://www.thelegacyreturns.com <http://www.thelegacyreturns.com/>
> > >
> > >cfogleman@...
> > >
> > >cfogleman@...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > >From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com 40yahoogroups.com>
> > >[mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com 40yahoogroups.com>]
> > On Behalf Of Don Bradner
> > >Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 1:16 PM
> > >To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com 40yahoogroups.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Federal smog laws GregO'Connor
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >I know, and Greg is certainly correct when he says that
California is
> > >employing such standards quicker than Federal, but the question
is about
> > >something in Federal (or California, for that matter) rules
that will make
> > >us comply with smog rules (which would mean repowering, or
junking).
> > >
> > >On 12/7/2008 at 8:28 AM Pete Masterson wrote:
> > >
> > >>FWIW, ULSD is the only diesel sold in CA for the last couple
of years...
> > >>
> > >>Pete Masterson
> > >>'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
> > >>aeonix1@mac. >
com
> > >>On the road at Newberry Springs, CA
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>On Dec 7, 2008, at 5:31 AM, Don Bradner wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Greg, can you provide a cite for this? I spent extensive
time with
> > >>> Google and could not come up with any federal requirements
that did
> > >>> not involve one of the following:
> > >>>
> > >>> New engines
> > >>> ULSD fuel
> > >>>
> > >>> Neither of those would adversely affect my coach, so I would
like
> > >>> to know if you have some hard-to-find information concerning
> > >>> federal rules that would, in fact, affect vintage stuff?
> > >>>
> > >>> Don Bradner
> > >>> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
> > >>> Posting today by satellite from Gladewater, TX
> > >>> My location: http://www.bbirdmaps.com/user2.cfm?user=1
> > >>>
> > >>> On 12/6/2008 at 5:03 PM timvasqz wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> Diesel
> > >>>> motorhomes with "private registration" are exempt from many
CA smog
> > >>>> requirements but will be hit blind sighted when fed
regulations take
> > >>>> hold.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ------------------------------------
> > >>>
> > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>------------------------------------
> > >>
> > >>Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Curt Sprenger
> 1987 PT38 8V92 "MacAttack Racing"
> Anaheim Hills, CA
>

[Don Bradner]

Read this in the roadside inspection law:
http://www.arb.ca.gov/enf/hdvip/13_ccr_2180-2189.pdf

"(16) “Heavy-duty vehicle” means a motor vehicle having a manufacturer's
maximum gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) greater than 6,000 pounds,
except passenger cars."

I suspect that's the primary loophole. In California, our private coaches are
classed a "housecars" which is why they are treated as passenger cars for
registration, driver's license, etc.

I think you already noted that we are specifically exempt from the periodic
inspection requirement.

You assume because you fall under the rules that we all do. Your challenge:
document a case where this has happened with a privately registered housecar.

On 12/8/2008 at 2:06 AM timvasqz wrote:

>Curt, there are more than 8 new programs and requirements. Nov 11
>CARB meeting is only one more to make 9. No diesel engine , even a
>lawn tractor is exempt from excessive smoking now. Motorhomes may
>be exempt from Mandated Testing programs but not emissions and road
>side review.
>
>
> I can guarantee that a puff of smoke from a motorhome or pickup
>truck is going to send a pissed off trucker to the 5 digit #smog (in
>California from most cell phones) reporting line.
>
>the retrofit filter ccw has is between $10,000 and 20,000 per
>schoolbus (or who ever did the Alhambra busses charged that). The
>filter only buys time as some of the programs have other
>requirements. The Federal emissions programs are only accelerated
>in California and comming to a state near FortValley soon. I wish
>CCW was public, been just dollar cost averaging last years picks.
>would be nice to bet on a winner.
>
>I posted Links earlier but my association got Tim moderated and I
>guess my post didnt pass, maybe this one will be held up also. Tim
>shouldnt leave his Yahoo account signed on.
>GregoryO'Connor of Tim$Greg
>94ptCa
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Curt Sprenger"
> wrote:
>>
>> Don,
>>
>> I read the same information. Our old coaches are exempt.
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 2:38 PM, Don Bradner wrote:
>>
>> > Chris, because of your position you should know more about
>this than any
>> > of us, but as far as I can tell, the below is FUD. Please refer
>to an exact
>> > cite, not a massive website, if you know differently.
>> >
>> > What I find is that the ARB is meeting next week, possibly to
>adopt new
>> > regulations which can be found at
>> > http://www.arb.ca.gov/regact/2008/truckbus08/appa.pdf
>> >
>> > Pertinent info:
>> >
>> > "Adopt new section 2025, in title 13, article 4.5, chapter 1,
>California
>> > Code of Regulations
>> > (CCR) to read as follows: (Note that the entire text of section
>2025 set
>> > forth below is
>> > new language proposed to be added to the California Code of
>Regulations.)
>> > Section 2025. Regulation to Reduce Emissions of Diesel
>Particulate Matter,
>> > Oxides of Nitrogen and Other Criteria Pollutants, and Greenhouse
>> > Gases from In-Use Heavy-Duty Diesel-Fueled Vehicles"
>> >
>> > "© Exemptions
>> > This regulation does not apply to:"
>> >
>> > "(11) Motor homes for non-commercial private use."
>> >
>> > Please, please tell me how I am misreading this.
>> >
>> >
>> > On 12/7/2008 at 1:58 PM Chris Fogleman wrote:
>> >
>> > >Hello BB family, regarding the emission laws rthere are
>compliance date
>> > >for
>> > >various engine years , And also if the engines cant meet the
>compliance
>> > >you will need to repower are scrap , This all started with the
>federal
>> > >government. Makeing california clean up the Air quality and if
>California
>> > >cant Comply.The Federal Government will hold funding. That
>California
>> > needs
>> > >for Road work and etc,This is why Arnold the Governor and AQMD
>and all the
>> > >other agencies have such a push on getting the Air cleaned up.
>Go to
>> > >this
>> > >site for more info http://WWW.arb.ca.gov
>> > >
>> > >Chris E. Fogleman
>> > >
>> > >Complete Coach Works
>> > >
>> > >Alternative Fuel Sales Manager
>> > >
>> > >Cell: (951) 836-6520
>> > >
>> > >http://www.thelegacyreturns.com <http://www.thelegacyreturns.com/>
>> > >
>> > >cfogleman@...
>> > >
>> > >cfogleman@...
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _____
>> > >
>> > >From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com >40yahoogroups.com>
>> > >[mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com >40yahoogroups.com>]
>> > On Behalf Of Don Bradner
>> > >Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 1:16 PM
>> > >To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com >40yahoogroups.com>
>> > >Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Federal smog laws GregO'Connor
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >I know, and Greg is certainly correct when he says that
>California is
>> > >employing such standards quicker than Federal, but the question
>is about
>> > >something in Federal (or California, for that matter) rules
>that will make
>> > >us comply with smog rules (which would mean repowering, or
>junking).
>> > >
>> > >On 12/7/2008 at 8:28 AM Pete Masterson wrote:
>> > >
>> > >>FWIW, ULSD is the only diesel sold in CA for the last couple
>of years...
>> > >>
>> > >>Pete Masterson
>> > >>'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
>> > >>aeonix1@mac. >
>com
>> > >>On the road at Newberry Springs, CA
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>On Dec 7, 2008, at 5:31 AM, Don Bradner wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>> Greg, can you provide a cite for this? I spent extensive
>time with
>> > >>> Google and could not come up with any federal requirements
>that did
>> > >>> not involve one of the following:
>> > >>>
>> > >>> New engines
>> > >>> ULSD fuel
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Neither of those would adversely affect my coach, so I would
>like
>> > >>> to know if you have some hard-to-find information concerning
>> > >>> federal rules that would, in fact, affect vintage stuff?
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Don Bradner
>> > >>> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
>> > >>> Posting today by satellite from Gladewater, TX
>> > >>> My location: http://www.bbirdmaps.com/user2.cfm?user=1
>> > >>>
>> > >>> On 12/6/2008 at 5:03 PM timvasqz wrote:
>> > >>>
>> > >>>> Diesel
>> > >>>> motorhomes with "private registration" are exempt from many
>CA smog
>> > >>>> requirements but will be hit blind sighted when fed
>regulations take
>> > >>>> hold.
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> ------------------------------------
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>------------------------------------
>> > >>
>> > >>Yahoo! Groups Links
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Curt Sprenger
>> 1987 PT38 8V92 "MacAttack Racing"
>> Anaheim Hills, CA
>>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[timvasqz]

Don your challenge is easy. look at blogs and forums for folks
complaining about Tickets they got for excessive smoke while driving
equally exempt diesel cars and pickups. Old Benz and 05ish Chevy
stock duramax seem to have issues. States with Quakers, Apples and
former presidents show up more then my state of social inequality.

The fact that non-commercial and C-class drivers are not required
to be enrolled in Drug Alcohol screening programs does not make them
exempt from sober driving. Cant drive a rig that smokes, gas or
diesel. 3208, s92 and s60 are major smokers. The 'class A non-
commercial license' I bet was set after lobby by the Diesel
Motorhome industries push to increase the pool of qualified
customers for big airbrake rigs. That same industry has an interest
in legal obsolescence of previously purchased units
Gregory O'Connor of Tim&Greg
94ptCa

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner"
wrote:

>
> You assume because you fall under the rules that we all do. Your
challenge: document a case where this has happened with a privately
registered housecar.

[freewill2008]

I found another copy of the proposed California ARB rule changes
posted at the UC Davis Web site and dated June 3, 2008. The scope
statement reads:

"Proposed Statewide Truck and Bus Regulation Scope

- Diesel vehicles operating in California;
- Trucks, buses, yard trucks, and other interstate, intrastate,
international, and other vehicles greater than 14,000 GVWR and
shuttle buses;
- Any person, business, or government agency who owns, leases, rents,
or sells a vehicle in California;
- EXCLUDES emergency vehicles, military tactical vehicles, AND
PERSONAL USE MOTORHOMES; [emphasise mine]
- School buses subject only to PM requirements."

For the complete document see:
http://airquality.ucdavis.edu/pages/even...LINDNER.pd
f

Bob Griesel '84 FC31 WLII WA



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner"
wrote:
>
> Read this in the roadside inspection law:
http://www.arb.ca.gov/enf/hdvip/13_ccr_2180-2189.pdf
>
> "(16) "Heavy-duty vehicle" means a motor vehicle having a
manufacturer's
> maximum gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) greater than 6,000
pounds,
> except passenger cars."
>
> I suspect that's the primary loophole. In California, our private
coaches are classed a "housecars" which is why they are treated as
passenger cars for registration, driver's license, etc.
>
> I think you already noted that we are specifically exempt from the
periodic inspection requirement.
>
> You assume because you fall under the rules that we all do. Your
challenge: document a case where this has happened with a privately
registered housecar.
>
> On 12/8/2008 at 2:06 AM timvasqz wrote:
>
> >Curt, there are more than 8 new programs and requirements. Nov 11
> >CARB meeting is only one more to make 9. No diesel engine , even
a
> >lawn tractor is exempt from excessive smoking now. Motorhomes may
> >be exempt from Mandated Testing programs but not emissions and
road
> >side review.
> >
> >
> > I can guarantee that a puff of smoke from a motorhome or pickup
> >truck is going to send a pissed off trucker to the 5 digit #smog
(in
> >California from most cell phones) reporting line.
> >
> >the retrofit filter ccw has is between $10,000 and 20,000 per
> >schoolbus (or who ever did the Alhambra busses charged that). The
> >filter only buys time as some of the programs have other
> >requirements. The Federal emissions programs are only
accelerated
> >in California and comming to a state near FortValley soon. I wish
> >CCW was public, been just dollar cost averaging last years picks.
> >would be nice to bet on a winner.
> >
> >I posted Links earlier but my association got Tim moderated and I
> >guess my post didnt pass, maybe this one will be held up also. Tim
> >shouldnt leave his Yahoo account signed on.
> >GregoryO'Connor of Tim$Greg
> >94ptCa
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Curt Sprenger"
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Don,
> >>
> >> I read the same information. Our old coaches are exempt.
> >>
> >> On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 2:38 PM, Don Bradner wrote:
> >>
> >> > Chris, because of your position you should know more about
> >this than any
> >> > of us, but as far as I can tell, the below is FUD. Please
refer
> >to an exact
> >> > cite, not a massive website, if you know differently.
> >> >
> >> > What I find is that the ARB is meeting next week, possibly to
> >adopt new
> >> > regulations which can be found at
> >> > http://www.arb.ca.gov/regact/2008/truckbus08/appa.pdf
> >> >
> >> > Pertinent info:
> >> >
> >> > "Adopt new section 2025, in title 13, article 4.5, chapter 1,
> >California
> >> > Code of Regulations
> >> > (CCR) to read as follows: (Note that the entire text of
section
> >2025 set
> >> > forth below is
> >> > new language proposed to be added to the California Code of
> >Regulations.)
> >> > Section 2025. Regulation to Reduce Emissions of Diesel
> >Particulate Matter,
> >> > Oxides of Nitrogen and Other Criteria Pollutants, and
Greenhouse
> >> > Gases from In-Use Heavy-Duty Diesel-Fueled Vehicles"
> >> >
> >> > "© Exemptions
> >> > This regulation does not apply to:"
> >> >
> >> > "(11) Motor homes for non-commercial private use."
> >> >
> >> > Please, please tell me how I am misreading this.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On 12/7/2008 at 1:58 PM Chris Fogleman wrote:
> >> >
> >> > >Hello BB family, regarding the emission laws rthere are
> >compliance date
> >> > >for
> >> > >various engine years , And also if the engines cant meet the
> >compliance
> >> > >you will need to repower are scrap , This all started with
the
> >federal
> >> > >government. Makeing california clean up the Air quality and
if
> >California
> >> > >cant Comply.The Federal Government will hold funding. That
> >California
> >> > needs
> >> > >for Road work and etc,This is why Arnold the Governor and
AQMD
> >and all the
> >> > >other agencies have such a push on getting the Air cleaned
up.
> >Go to
> >> > >this
> >> > >site for more info http://WWW.arb.ca.gov
> >> > >
> >> > >Chris E. Fogleman
> >> > >
> >> > >Complete Coach Works
> >> > >
> >> > >Alternative Fuel Sales Manager
> >> > >
> >> > >Cell: (951) 836-6520
> >> > >
> >> > >http://www.thelegacyreturns.com <http://www.thelegacyreturns.com/>
> >> > >
> >> > >cfogleman@
> >> > >
> >> > >cfogleman@
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > _____
> >> > >
> >> > >From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > >40yahoogroups.com>
> >> > >[mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > >40yahoogroups.com>]
> >> > On Behalf Of Don Bradner
> >> > >Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 1:16 PM
> >> > >To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > >40yahoogroups.com>
> >> > >Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Federal smog laws GregO'Connor
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >I know, and Greg is certainly correct when he says that
> >California is
> >> > >employing such standards quicker than Federal, but the
question
> >is about
> >> > >something in Federal (or California, for that matter) rules
> >that will make
> >> > >us comply with smog rules (which would mean repowering, or
> >junking).
> >> > >
> >> > >On 12/7/2008 at 8:28 AM Pete Masterson wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >>FWIW, ULSD is the only diesel sold in CA for the last couple
> >of years...
> >> > >>
> >> > >>Pete Masterson
> >> > >>'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
> >> > >>aeonix1@mac. 2540mac.com>>
> >com
> >> > >>On the road at Newberry Springs, CA
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>On Dec 7, 2008, at 5:31 AM, Don Bradner wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >>> Greg, can you provide a cite for this? I spent extensive
> >time with
> >> > >>> Google and could not come up with any federal requirements
> >that did
> >> > >>> not involve one of the following:
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> New engines
> >> > >>> ULSD fuel
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> Neither of those would adversely affect my coach, so I
would
> >like
> >> > >>> to know if you have some hard-to-find information
concerning
> >> > >>> federal rules that would, in fact, affect vintage stuff?
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> Don Bradner
> >> > >>> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
> >> > >>> Posting today by satellite from Gladewater, TX
> >> > >>> My location: http://www.bbirdmaps.com/user2.cfm?user=1
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> On 12/6/2008 at 5:03 PM timvasqz wrote:
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>> Diesel
> >> > >>>> motorhomes with "private registration" are exempt from
many
> >CA smog
> >> > >>>> requirements but will be hit blind sighted when fed
> >regulations take
> >> > >>>> hold.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> ------------------------------------
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>------------------------------------
> >> > >>
> >> > >>Yahoo! Groups Links
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Curt Sprenger
> >> 1987 PT38 8V92 "MacAttack Racing"
> >> Anaheim Hills, CA
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

[Don Bradner]

Frustrating. My challenge is easy, so how about one verifiable link for a
private diesel motorhome in California. Note the importance of the last 5 words.
No Benz, Chevies, Quakers, Apples or Presidents involved.

Don Bradner
90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
Posting today by aircard (too windy at the moment for satellite dishes!) from
Pecos, TX
My location: http://www.bbirdmaps.com/user2.cfm?user=1

On 12/8/2008 at 5:05 PM timvasqz wrote:

>Don your challenge is easy. look at blogs and forums for folks
>complaining about Tickets they got for excessive smoke while driving
>equally exempt diesel cars and pickups. Old Benz and 05ish Chevy
>stock duramax seem to have issues. States with Quakers, Apples and
>former presidents show up more then my state of social inequality.
>
>The fact that non-commercial and C-class drivers are not required
>to be enrolled in Drug Alcohol screening programs does not make them
>exempt from sober driving. Cant drive a rig that smokes, gas or
>diesel. 3208, s92 and s60 are major smokers. The 'class A non-
>commercial license' I bet was set after lobby by the Diesel
>Motorhome industries push to increase the pool of qualified
>customers for big airbrake rigs. That same industry has an interest
>in legal obsolescence of previously purchased units
>Gregory O'Connor of Tim&Greg
>94ptCa
>
>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner"
> wrote:
>
>>
>> You assume because you fall under the rules that we all do. Your
>challenge: document a case where this has happened with a privately
>registered housecar.

[Don Bradner]

Throwing a bit more fuel on the fire, take a look at california code of
regulations 1956.8 which sets forth the heavy diesel emissions test procedures,
and note the specific exemption for "recreational vehicles as
defined in Health and Safety Code 18010" which includes motor homes.

On 12/8/2008 at 4:03 PM Don Bradner wrote:

>Frustrating. My challenge is easy, so how about one verifiable link for a
>private diesel motorhome in California. Note the importance of the last 5
>words. No Benz, Chevies, Quakers, Apples or Presidents involved.
>
>Don Bradner
>90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
>Posting today by aircard (too windy at the moment for satellite dishes!)
>from Pecos, TX
>My location: http://www.bbirdmaps.com/user2.cfm?user=1
>
>On 12/8/2008 at 5:05 PM timvasqz wrote:
>
>>Don your challenge is easy. look at blogs and forums for folks
>>complaining about Tickets they got for excessive smoke while driving
>>equally exempt diesel cars and pickups. Old Benz and 05ish Chevy
>>stock duramax seem to have issues. States with Quakers, Apples and
>>former presidents show up more then my state of social inequality.
>>
>>The fact that non-commercial and C-class drivers are not required
>>to be enrolled in Drug Alcohol screening programs does not make them
>>exempt from sober driving. Cant drive a rig that smokes, gas or
>>diesel. 3208, s92 and s60 are major smokers. The 'class A non-
>>commercial license' I bet was set after lobby by the Diesel
>>Motorhome industries push to increase the pool of qualified
>>customers for big airbrake rigs. That same industry has an interest
>>in legal obsolescence of previously purchased units
>>Gregory O'Connor of Tim&Greg
>>94ptCa
>>
>>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner"
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> You assume because you fall under the rules that we all do. Your
>>challenge: document a case where this has happened with a privately
>>registered housecar.
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>