How can I start a DD Series 60 if I run out of fuel?

[mbulriss]

Good synopsis on fuel flow, and potential problems, I thought. I am not a big
advocate of trying to see how low I can run the fuel tank. Generally, I refill
the Bird after every trip just so I can reduce the condensation and so it is
ready to go on a moment's notice. Lots of people also don't realize that you
can have a similar problem with most toads today, since they started putting the
electric fuel pumps inside the fuel tank. You need a certain level of fuel to
cool them. Running the tank dry can fry those little high spinning motors.

FWIW.

Mike Bulriss
1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
San Antonio, TX

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Rob Robinson wrote:
>
> I didn't know about that low fuel signal. Learn something new everyday.
>
> 2009/10/31 gregory O
>
> >
> >
> > on many diesels the fuel is used to cool the injectors. on the 3208 the
> > fuel tank will get warm as the engine runs. the fuel that gets pumped to the
> > injector pump but doesn't get injected, passes the injectors on its way back
> > to the tank.
> >
> > On many 1990+ engines the fuel is used also to cool the computer. If the
> > tank is let to run too low, there is less fuel to deal with the calories so
> > the ability to adequately dissipate reduced. The tank will get hot to the
> > touch. I cooked a computer in a 92 N-14 during the $6.00 fuel price period
> > while buying fuel like a commodity .
> >
> > my cooked computer was a result not the problem. It is good to always learn
> > the cause. On my 92N-14 the engineered tank that 'Ford Truck' ( now
> > 'Sterling truck' installed sent a low fuel signal light and buzzer to the
> > cab. I previously replaced the OEM tanks with a cool looking aluminum 200
> > gal set and never considered hooking up what I thought was a simple "get
> > some fuel" idiot light and alarm.
> >
> > Greg
> > 94ptca
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com,
> > Bernard Haag <bhaagrealtor@> wrote:
> > >
> > > you need ot take your fuel filters off and refill them, if you
> > completely ran out, if it just started to sput and spirt then fill fuel tank
> > and try to restart but be careful on the time you keep your starter
> > inguaged. Another way is to take WD-40 and spray into Air Cleaner and let
> > her run on that until she picks up prime...
> > >
> > > --- On Fri, 10/30/09, Eric wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Eric > >
> > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] How can I start a DD Series 60 if I run out
> > of fuel?
> > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > Date: Friday, October 30, 2009, 11:41 PM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I have not run this bird out of fuel. I have been known to run the tank
> > pretty low though. What steps are necessary to restart the DD Series 60
> > engine in the event that I should run it out of fuel? Is this when I should
> > use the ether injection system???
> > >
> > > Eric Perplies
> > > 96' 42' WBWL
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Rob, Sue and Joey Robinson
> 94 WLWB
>

[Wallace Craig]

Mike, thanks, unaware about toad. The simple answer is the one you gave; keep it filled. Wallace Craig 95 WLWB 42 Azle, Texas --- On Sat, 10/31/09, mbulriss <mbulriss@...> wrote: From: mbulriss <mbulriss@...> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: How can I start a DD Series 60 if I run out of fuel? To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, October 31, 2009, 1:15 PM Good synopsis on fuel flow, and potential problems, I thought. I am not a big advocate of trying to see how low I can run the fuel tank. Generally, I refill the Bird after every trip just so I can reduce the condensation and so it is ready to go on a moment's notice. Lots of people also don't realize that you can have a similar problem with most toads today, since they started putting the electric fuel pumps inside the fuel tank. You need a certain level of fuel to cool them. Running the tank dry can fry those little high spinning motors. FWIW. Mike Bulriss 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan" San Antonio, TX --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Rob Robinson wrote: > > I didn't know about that low fuel signal. Learn something new everyday. > > 2009/10/31 gregory O > > > > > > > on many diesels the fuel is used to cool the injectors. on the 3208 the > > fuel tank will get warm as the engine runs. the fuel that gets pumped to the > > injector pump but doesn't get injected, passes the injectors on its way back > > to the tank. > > > > On many 1990+ engines the fuel is used also to cool the computer. If the > > tank is let to run too low, there is less fuel to deal with the calories so > > the ability to adequately dissipate reduced. The tank will get hot to the > > touch. I cooked a computer in a 92 N-14 during the $6.00 fuel price period > > while buying fuel like a commodity . > > > > my cooked computer was a result not the problem. It is good to always learn > > the cause. On my 92N-14 the engineered tank that 'Ford Truck' ( now > > 'Sterling truck') installed sent a low fuel signal light and buzzer to the > > cab. I previously replaced the OEM tanks with a cool looking aluminum 200 > > gal set and never considered hooking up what I thought was a simple "get > > some fuel" idiot light and alarm. > > > > Greg > > 94ptca > > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, > > Bernard Haag <bhaagrealtor@> wrote: > > > > > > you need ot take your fuel filters off and refill them, if you > > completely ran out, if it just started to sput and spirt then fill fuel tank > > and try to restart but be careful on the time you keep your starter > > inguaged. Another way is to take WD-40 and spray into Air Cleaner and let > > her run on that until she picks up prime... > > > > > > --- On Fri, 10/30/09, Eric wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Eric > > > > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] How can I start a DD Series 60 if I run out > > of fuel? > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Friday, October 30, 2009, 11:41 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have not run this bird out of fuel. I have been known to run the tank > > pretty low though. What steps are necessary to restart the DD Series 60 > > engine in the event that I should run it out of fuel? Is this when I should > > use the ether injection system??? > > > > > > Eric Perplies > > > 96' 42' WBWL > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Rob, Sue and Joey Robinson > 94 WLWB > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:WanderlodgeForum-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:WanderlodgeForum-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Pete Masterson]

First, it's really a bad idea to run out of fuel. Aside from the difficulty of restarting (which is significant), you're also drawing in all the crap at the bottom of the fuel tank that is likely going to clog your filters.

That said, I hate to admit, but one day, I screwed up and got air into the fuel line, killing the engine. Hint: If you forget to drain off the stuff in the bottom of the Racor filter -- don't do it while the engine is running! Turn off the engine first!

Restart: First, ensure that all the fuel filters are full of fuel. Probably the Racor is the one to "distrust" first.

You will probably not be able to start, even with all the filters full.

The ether injection tank is _probably_ empty. Looking in my coach, I don't think the ether tank had ever been refilled (or touched) from the day it was installed by the OEM.

On the air input from the air filter, there is a sensor with a bolt holding it into the air channel, accessed from the curb side door. An open end wrench can easily loosen this sensor, opening a 1" or so hole into the air channel. Use ether spray (starting spray from an autoparts store) and spray a very modest bit (3-4 second spray) into the air channel.

Step to the rear of the engine, and use the rear-engine start -- wait about 10 seconds. Turn on the key -- wait about 5 seconds while the self-tests complete. Then turn the engine over. It may cough and sputter a bit, but it may actually start up. If so, let it run for about a minute. Shut down, seal up the sensor in the air channel, set the start to front, and go start again from the driver's position.

If the engine didn't start on that first try. Then repeat the steps with the ether spray, the waits, and the trial start. It can take two or three tries to get the fuel pump to refill all the fuel lines to the engine. DO NOT OVERUSE THE ETHER SPRAY. It can explode and you won't like that.

The wait after spraying is to allow the spray to evaporate into the air intake area. The wait after switching on the ignition switch before starting is to ensure that there are not any stray voltages in sensors that might cause an explosion.

The 'permanent' solution is to install a second electric fuel pump after the Racor -- that would refill and pressurize the fuel line if you inadvertently introduce air into the fuel line to the injectors. But it's REALLY better to not cause the problem in the first place.

Just fill up the tank before you run out. It'll save a lot of heart burn. Also, don't TOUCH any of the fuel related stuff while the engine is running. Alway shut it down before fiddling with anything.... (a voice of experience).

PS. As for using ether as a cold weather starting aid (the reason there's an ether injection system) -- it's actually way much better to use the engine preheat (AquaHot) to warm the engine and avoid needing the ether. Easier on the engine and much less likely to damage anything or explode.

Pete Masterson

(former) '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42

El Sobrante CA

"aeonix1@mac.com"

On Oct 30, 2009, at 9:41 PM, Eric wrote:

I have not run this bird out of fuel. I have been known to run the tank pretty low though. What steps are necessary to restart the DD Series 60 engine in the event that I should run it out of fuel? Is this when I should use the ether injection system???

Eric Perplies
96' 42' WBWL



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[Rick]

Eric, my method, just used recently on a series 60. Takes 2 people. Remove a
fitting on the intake manifold. An easy one to remove is a sensor, on top, close
to rear of the bird. This leaves you with a 1/2 inch hole. While someone turns
the key from the rear ignition switch first,(easier from the rear to coordinate)
spray ether from a can into the intake manifold. Short bursts of from 1 to 2
seconds waiting 2-3 seconds in between. She will fire right off. Time the bursts
to keep it running about 20- 30 seconds, this will allow the fuel pump time to
reprime the lines and get her going. Of course be sure the filters, whatever
kind you have are fully primed first. Then, when she is running, quickly, set
the fast idle on and let it run for 5 minutes before stopping.

Rick Archie
85PT40 For Sale http://1985bluebirdpt40.shutterfly.com/
97WL43 "Fort R #4"
Fort Worth, Tx

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Eric" wrote:
>
> I have not run this bird out of fuel. I have been known to run the tank pretty
low though. What steps are necessary to restart the DD Series 60 engine in the
event that I should run it out of fuel? Is this when I should use the ether
injection system???
>
> Eric Perplies
> 96' 42' WBWL
>

[David Brady]

Pete,

You want to make sure the engine is rotating, via the starter, as you
spray ether into it. Not a good idea to spray ether into the intake runner,
wait, and then run the starter. Serious engine damage can result.

David Brady
'02 LXi, NC

-----Original Message-----

From: Pete Masterson

Sent: Oct 31, 2009 3:33 PM

To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] How can I start a DD Series 60 if I run out of fuel?

First, it's really a bad idea to run out of fuel. Aside from the difficulty of restarting (which is significant), you're also drawing in all the crap at the bottom of the fuel tank that is likely going to clog your filters.

That said, I hate to admit, but one day, I screwed up and got air into the fuel line, killing the engine. Hint: If you forget to drain off the stuff in the bottom of the Racor filter -- don't do it while the engine is running! Turn off the engine first!

Restart: First, ensure that all the fuel filters are full of fuel. Probably the Racor is the one to "distrust" first.

You will probably not be able to start, even with all the filters full.

The ether injection tank is _probably_ empty. Looking in my coach, I don't think the ether tank had ever been refilled (or touched) from the day it was installed by the OEM.

On the air input from the air filter, there is a sensor with a bolt holding it into the air channel, accessed from the curb side door. An open end wrench can easily loosen this sensor, opening a 1" or so hole into the air channel. Use ether spray (starting spray from an autoparts store) and spray a very modest bit (3-4 second spray) into the air channel.

Step to the rear of the engine, and use the rear-engine start -- wait about 10 seconds. Turn on the key -- wait about 5 seconds while the self-tests complete. Then turn the engine over. It may cough and sputter a bit, but it may actually start up. If so, let it run for about a minute. Shut down, seal up the sensor in the air channel, set the start to front, and go start again from the driver's position.

If the engine didn't start on that first try. Then repeat the steps with the ether spray, the waits, and the trial start. It can take two or three tries to get the fuel pump to refill all the fuel lines to the engine. DO NOT OVERUSE THE ETHER SPRAY. It can explode and you won't like that.

The wait after spraying is to allow the spray to evaporate into the air intake area. The wait after switching on the ignition switch before starting is to ensure that there are not any stray voltages in sensors that might cause an explosion.

The 'permanent' solution is to install a second electric fuel pump after the Racor -- that would refill and pressurize the fuel line if you inadvertently introduce air into the fuel line to the injectors. But it's REALLY better to not cause the problem in the first place.

Just fill up the tank before you run out. It'll save a lot of heart burn. Also, don't TOUCH any of the fuel related stuff while the engine is running. Alway shut it down before fiddling with anything.... (a voice of experience).

PS. As for using ether as a cold weather starting aid (the reason there's an ether injection system) -- it's actually way much better to use the engine preheat (AquaHot) to warm the engine and avoid needing the ether. Easier on the engine and much less likely to damage anything or explode.

Pete Masterson

(former) '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42

El Sobrante CA

"aeonix1@mac.com"

On Oct 30, 2009, at 9:41 PM, Eric wrote:

I have not run this bird out of fuel. I have been known to run the tank pretty low though. What steps are necessary to restart the DD Series 60 engine in the event that I should run it out of fuel? Is this when I should use the ether injection system???

Eric Perplies
96' 42' WBWL



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