Threaded Mode | Linear Mode

12-08-2008, 10:29

Don - CARB has published a number of documents about the new
regulations.

See page 15 at this link:

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onrdiesel/d...17_Truck_%
20Reg_Workshop.pdf

And page 4 at this link:

http://airquality.ucdavis.edu/pages/even...LINDNER.pd
f

And page 9 at this link:

http://www.wercbench.org/Greeningthesupplychain%
20handouts/B3_Brasil.pdf

And page 5 at this link:

http://mapserver6.tann.com/partnership/p...CAEPA_ARB-
DieselTrucksandBusRegulations5215.ppt#5

And page 9 at this link:

http://www.otaymesa.org/PPT/ARB'S%20Presentation.ppt#9

CARB seems to have made presentations and held conferences all over
the state during 2008 regarding the new regulations. If they intend
to include personal-use motorhomes, it is hard to figure why the
exemption language would be consistent in all of their presentations
and documents.

CARB will meet this month to consider, and perhaps formally adopt the
new regulations. If the personal-use motorhome exemption dissapears
from the regulation when it is adopted, I'm sure we will know soon
enough.

Until then, crack a cold one and relax.

Bob Griesel '84 FC31 WLII WA

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner"
wrote:
>
> Frustrating. My challenge is easy, so how about one verifiable link
for a private diesel motorhome in California. Note the importance of
the last 5 words. No Benz, Chevies, Quakers, Apples or Presidents
involved.
>
> Don Bradner
> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
> Posting today by aircard (too windy at the moment for satellite
dishes!) from Pecos, TX
> My location: http://www.bbirdmaps.com/user2.cfm?user=1
>
> On 12/8/2008 at 5:05 PM timvasqz wrote:
>
> >Don your challenge is easy. look at blogs and forums for folks
> >complaining about Tickets they got for excessive smoke while
driving
> >equally exempt diesel cars and pickups. Old Benz and 05ish Chevy
> >stock duramax seem to have issues. States with Quakers, Apples
and
> >former presidents show up more then my state of social inequality.
> >
> >The fact that non-commercial and C-class drivers are not required
> >to be enrolled in Drug Alcohol screening programs does not make
them
> >exempt from sober driving. Cant drive a rig that smokes, gas or
> >diesel. 3208, s92 and s60 are major smokers. The 'class A non-
> >commercial license' I bet was set after lobby by the Diesel
> >Motorhome industries push to increase the pool of qualified
> >customers for big airbrake rigs. That same industry has an
interest
> >in legal obsolescence of previously purchased units
> >Gregory O'Connor of Tim&Greg
> >94ptCa
> >
> >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner"
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> You assume because you fall under the rules that we all do. Your
> >challenge: document a case where this has happened with a
privately
> >registered housecar.
>

12-08-2008, 12:32

Hmmm sounds like bad new for our older Buses and Greg; but its a bit of good news for me at least when I tell Greg that I can finally put a down payment for this 2005baby;

I can always somehow find a silver linning in a bit of bad news.....lol

Tim of Tim & Greg

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Birtles" wrote:
>
> Well so much for visiting California
>
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Forman"
> scottforman75@ wrote:
> >
> > Are you telling me that someday a govt bureaucrat is going to show up
> > and tell me my bus cannot be driven and is now worthless unless I
> > spend 10's of thousands on a re-power of some kind???
> >
> > Scott Forman
> > 86 PT38
> > Memphis
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Fogleman"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello BB family, regarding the emission laws rthere are compliance
> > date for
> > > various engine years , And also if the engines cant meet the
> > compliance
> > > you will need to repower are scrap , This all started with the
> > federal
> > > government. Makeing california clean up the Air quality and if
> > California
> > > cant Comply.The Federal Government will hold funding. That
> > California needs
> > > for Road work and etc,This is why Arnold the Governor and AQMD and
> > all the
> > > other agencies have such a push on getting the Air cleaned up.
> > Go to this
> > > site for more info http://WWW.arb.ca.gov
> > >
> > > Chris E. Fogleman
> > >
> > > Complete Coach Works
> > >
> > > Alternative Fuel Sales Manager
> > >
> > > Cell: (951) 836-6520
> > >
> > > http://www.thelegacyreturns.com <http://www.thelegacyreturns.com/>
> > >
> > > cfogleman@
> > >
> > > cfogleman@
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Bradner
> > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 1:16 PM
> > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Federal smog laws GregO'Connor
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I know, and Greg is certainly correct when he says that California
> > is
> > > employing such standards quicker than Federal, but the question is
> > about
> > > something in Federal (or California, for that matter) rules that
> > will make
> > > us comply with smog rules (which would mean repowering, or junking).
> > >
> > > On 12/7/2008 at 8:28 AM Pete Masterson wrote:
> > >
> > > >FWIW, ULSD is the only diesel sold in CA for the last couple of
> > years...
> > > >
> > > >Pete Masterson
> > > >'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
> > > >aeonix1@mac. com
> > > >On the road at Newberry Springs, CA
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >On Dec 7, 2008, at 5:31 AM, Don Bradner wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Greg, can you provide a cite for this? I spent extensive time
> > with
> > > >> Google and could not come up with any federal requirements that
> > did
> > > >> not involve one of the following:
> > > >>
> > > >> New engines
> > > >> ULSD fuel
> > > >>
> > > >> Neither of those would adversely affect my coach, so I would
> > like
> > > >> to know if you have some hard-to-find information concerning
> > > >> federal rules that would, in fact, affect vintage stuff?
> > > >>
> > > >> Don Bradner
> > > >> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
> > > >> Posting today by satellite from Gladewater, TX
> > > >> My location: http://www.bbirdmaps.com/user2.cfm?user=1
> > > >>
> > > >> On 12/6/2008 at 5:03 PM timvasqz wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Diesel
> > > >>> motorhomes with "private registration" are exempt from many CA
> > smog
> > > >>> requirements but will be hit blind sighted when fed regulations
> > take
> > > >>> hold.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> ------------------------------------
> > > >>
> > > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

12-08-2008, 14:00

Sounds like your covered and good to go. Thanks for the input
GregoryO'Connor ofTim&Greg
94ptCa

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner"
wrote:
>
> Throwing a bit more fuel on the fire, take a look at california
code of regulations 1956.8 which sets forth the heavy diesel
emissions test procedures, and note the specific exemption
for "recreational vehicles as
> defined in Health and Safety Code 18010" which includes motor
homes.
>
> On 12/8/2008 at 4:03 PM Don Bradner wrote:
>
> >Frustrating. My challenge is easy, so how about one verifiable
link for a
> >private diesel motorhome in California. Note the importance of
the last 5
> >words. No Benz, Chevies, Quakers, Apples or Presidents involved.
> >
> >Don Bradner
> >90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
> >Posting today by aircard (too windy at the moment for satellite
dishes!)
> >from Pecos, TX
> >My location: http://www.bbirdmaps.com/user2.cfm?user=1
> >
> >On 12/8/2008 at 5:05 PM timvasqz wrote:
> >
> >>Don your challenge is easy. look at blogs and forums for folks
> >>complaining about Tickets they got for excessive smoke while
driving
> >>equally exempt diesel cars and pickups. Old Benz and 05ish
Chevy
> >>stock duramax seem to have issues. States with Quakers, Apples
and
> >>former presidents show up more then my state of social
inequality.
> >>
> >>The fact that non-commercial and C-class drivers are not
required
> >>to be enrolled in Drug Alcohol screening programs does not make
them
> >>exempt from sober driving. Cant drive a rig that smokes, gas or
> >>diesel. 3208, s92 and s60 are major smokers. The 'class A non-
> >>commercial license' I bet was set after lobby by the Diesel
> >>Motorhome industries push to increase the pool of qualified
> >>customers for big airbrake rigs. That same industry has an
interest
> >>in legal obsolescence of previously purchased units
> >>Gregory O'Connor of Tim&Greg
> >>94ptCa
> >>
> >>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner"
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> You assume because you fall under the rules that we all do.
Your
> >>challenge: document a case where this has happened with a
privately
> >>registered housecar.
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

12-10-2008, 03:39

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Birtles"
wrote:
>
> Well so much for visiting California
>
>What I understand now is:
Since my engine is a Cat 3208 from 1991, smokes wnenever I hit the
throttle, even lightly, I better NOT enter California at all. So No
more Yosemite or any other nat'l park or california landscape. I
cannot afford the cost of an engine which is higher than the whole
coach is worth. Well, if California is OFF my list than so be it.
Arizona is still pretty along with plenty other states.
Juergen in PA
1991 WLSP 36

12-10-2008, 05:16

Greg, Chris devotes the majority of his time staying up to date on CARB mandates as you indicated. The real challenge in doing that is that it is a moving target, we attend weekly CARB public hearings on proposed rules, meetings for hearings on proposed changes to proposed rules, etc. etc. etc.

We are working on an “executive summary” of where things stand as we see them right now. And... If things stand constant for just long enough, we will share that summary with this forum.

Good to hear from you Greg.

Travel Safe.

Macy

Macy Neshati

Vice President, Sales & Marketing

Complete Coach Works & Blue Bird Coachworks

Office: 951-684-9585 Cell: 951-836-6525 Fax: 951-684-9585

Visit Our Websites: http://www.completecoach.com &http://www.bluebirdcoachworks.com

12-10-2008, 07:12

It is hardly that simple. Either it is true that motorhomes are going to fall
under tough federal requirements, or it isn't.

If it is true, then staying out of California will buy you at most a couple of
years, since that's about how far they are ahead of federal regulations.

If it is not true, then there is no reason to stay out of California.

On 12/10/2008 at 3:39 PM Juergen wrote:

>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Birtles"
> wrote:
>>
>> Well so much for visiting California
>>
>>What I understand now is:
>Since my engine is a Cat 3208 from 1991, smokes wnenever I hit the
>throttle, even lightly, I better NOT enter California at all. So No
>more Yosemite or any other nat'l park or california landscape. I
>cannot afford the cost of an engine which is higher than the whole
>coach is worth. Well, if California is OFF my list than so be it.
>Arizona is still pretty along with plenty other states.
>Juergen in PA
>1991 WLSP 36

12-10-2008, 07:25

I still find it hard to believe that most Diesel motorhomes built say
before the late 90's will either have to spend big $ to make it clean
or be taken off the road. That would encompass a lot of vehicles. If it
is tue then every FC that is still on the road now becomes worth zero!!
Same for most of the earlier Detroits. Think of all the bus conevrsions
and BB competitors that would also become worthless!! That is a scary
thought. I doubt there is room for a DPF under any FC. They give off a
tremendous amount of heat and the exhaust is very close to the floor. I
can understand spending 10 or 15 G's on a commercial vehicle. They earn
$ but a leisure vehicle???

Bruce
1988FC35

12-10-2008, 08:04

CARB presentation notes from the 2008 public hearings state that
PRIVATE USE MOTORHOMES ARE TO BE EXEMPT FROM THE NEW REGULATIONS.
The wording is straightforward and unambiguous. I posted links to
several of the CARB documents here recently. See msg 39477.

If anyone has a link or other concrete information that refutes these
CARB presentations please post it.

Thanks
Bob Griesel '84 FC31 WLII WA

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "birdshill123"
wrote:
>
> I still find it hard to believe that most Diesel motorhomes built
say
> before the late 90's will either have to spend big $ to make it
clean
> or be taken off the road. That would encompass a lot of vehicles.
If it
> is tue then every FC that is still on the road now becomes worth
zero!!
> Same for most of the earlier Detroits. Think of all the bus
conevrsions
> and BB competitors that would also become worthless!! That is a
scary
> thought. I doubt there is room for a DPF under any FC. They give
off a
> tremendous amount of heat and the exhaust is very close to the
floor. I
> can understand spending 10 or 15 G's on a commercial vehicle. They
earn
> $ but a leisure vehicle???
>
> Bruce
> 1988FC35
>

12-10-2008, 11:27

Finished smog test on our rigs

o4Cat 10wheeler>1%
02Cummins Bobtail 1%
94 Wanderlodge 26.8%
92Cummins 10wheeler >1%
89Cat 10 wheeler 28%

independ tester

WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com

wrote:
>
> CARB presentation notes from the 2008 public hearings state that
> PRIVATE USE MOTORHOMES ARE TO BE EXEMPT FROM THE NEW REGULATIONS.
> The wording is straightforward and unambiguous. I posted links to
> several of the CARB documents here recently. See msg 39477.
>
> If anyone has a link or other concrete information that refutes these
> CARB presentations please post it.
>
> Thanks
> Bob Griesel '84 FC31 WLII WA
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "birdshill123"
> birdshill123@ wrote:
> >
> > I still find it hard to believe that most Diesel motorhomes built
> say
> > before the late 90's will either have to spend big $ to make it
> clean
> > or be taken off the road. That would encompass a lot of vehicles.
> If it
> > is tue then every FC that is still on the road now becomes worth
> zero!!
> > Same for most of the earlier Detroits. Think of all the bus
> conevrsions
> > and BB competitors that would also become worthless!! That is a
> scary
> > thought. I doubt there is room for a DPF under any FC. They give
> off a
> > tremendous amount of heat and the exhaust is very close to the
> floor. I
> > can understand spending 10 or 15 G's on a commercial vehicle. They
> earn
> > $ but a leisure vehicle???
> >
> > Bruce
> > 1988FC35
> >
>

12-10-2008, 12:15

On 12/10/2008 at 11:27 PM timvasqz wrote:

>The independent tester I used has tested motorhomes pickup trucks and
>diesel cars several were class c duramax units clearing up smoke
>fix-it-tickets. ( Don call an independ tester
><http://www.arb.ca.gov/enf/hdvip/certstf111408.pdf> for your research
>question).

Sorry, that's not going to cut it. Your tester is now going to add Wanderlodges
to his list of vehicles worked on, for any who ask in the future. For him, the
Private/Commercial aspect is immaterial.

>I
>know for a fact quoting ;statute ;law and ;code get you more issues and
>a court date.

If that's what it takes, then so be it. As a practical matter, instances of
Class A coaches being pulled over for anything, including exceeding the 55mph
towing limit in California, are exceedingly rare. The one California exception
appears to be 45-footers pulling obviously longer than 20-foot toads or
trailers.

I was, however, pulled over for my first time ever in a motor home a few days
ago on I-10 in Florida. The lift-window on our Jeep liberty had popped open
(happens with a wrong key press, just like a panic alarm), and the state trooper
wanted to make sure we weren't losing anything.

"Have a nice day and I will block traffic for you to get going" was the parting
word.

Don Bradner
90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
Posting today by park WiFi from Las Cruces, NM
My location: http://www.bbirdmaps.com/user2.cfm?user=1