Losing coolant

[David Brady]

I concur with Pete regarding the S-60. No recovery tank, just a
pressurized

fill tank with a glass sight glass at mid height, designed to be filled
halfway.

I never have a puking issue, pressure surges seem to be handled
sufficiently

by the fill tank. Maybe 2-stroke owners should try filling their
pressure tanks

only half way.



David Brady

'02 LXi, NC



Leroy Eckert wrote:

I cannot trace the lines on mine now because it is cold and raining. If there is any puking it will hit the ground I know that for sure. So a recovery or holding tank is a misnomer. I think Greg is correct. It probably is what would be termed the outlet tank(cooled water) on an auto radiator. I looked in my BB manual and it is called a surge tank and states it should be filled to the top. That would prove Greg's analysis that it is in fact a part of the radiator. My genset coolant system is a mini version of this system. Recovery tanks are not pressurized. Leroy Eckert 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors Dahlonega, GA Royale Conversion --- On Fri, 10/24/08, Gregory OConnor com> wrote: From: Gregory OConnor com> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Losing coolant To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 24, 2008, 5:21 PM I looked at my radiator fill point today (94/8v92)and concluded that it is no puke tank. when the buss chucks, it does not save the fluids passed thru the cap in a tank. the puke/chuck /ExpandedRadFluid goes out the neck of the cap holder thru a small rubber line and down the streetside bumper onto the ground. the Stainless steel tank atop the engine bay is simply a remote extension of the radiator top tank!!!!! I am thinking the Detroit design of 7 psi is for an application where the coach builder actually uses a recovery tank. (My 525hp cummins has a 4.5 lb cap and recovery puke tank) I like recovery systems with lower psi because there is no air in the system like must be in the stainless steel tank to accomindate the expansion of r fluids????? there is a small line from the ss tank to the top of the actual radiator who's purpose is to pass trapped air from rad to sstank????? (what do you think Leroy) we need a new name for the 'puke tank',,, "Remote radiator fill tank"?

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release Date: 10/9/2008 12:00 AM

[Leroy Eckert]

You are correct Don. It initially says fill to the top, page one and goes through a bleed process through the gate valves for bleeding air out of the engine and heater system. When finished it says fill to the top of the site glass presumably to allow for heat expansion without dropping it on the ground. page 2. Sounds like that famous radio commentator, what's his name??? Leroy Eckert 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors Dahlonega, GA Royale Conversion --- On Fri, 10/24/08, Don Bradner wrote: From: Don Bradner Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Losing coolant To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 24, 2008, 8:25 PM Leroy, would you double check that? The exact line in my manual reads (split between front and back pages): "Remove cap and fill radiator surge tank to the top of sight glass." That is what I do, and is significantly different than "to the top." There is a large air space above the top of sight glass, which in theory should handle heat-induced expansion without overflow. On 10/24/2008 at 4:19 PM Leroy Eckert wrote: >I looked in my BB manual and it is called a surge tank and >states it should be filled to the top.

[Don Bradner]

And now we know... the..rest...of the story!

On 10/24/2008 at 7:14 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:

>You are correct Don. It initially says fill to the top, page one and goes
>through a bleed process through the gate valves for bleeding air out of
>the engine and heater system. When finished it says fill to the top of the
>site glass presumably to allow for heat expansion without dropping it on
>the ground. page 2. Sounds like that famous radio commentator, what's his
>name???
>Leroy Eckert
>1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
>Dahlonega, GA
>Royale Conversion
>
>--- On Fri, 10/24/08, Don Bradner wrote:
>From: Don Bradner
>Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Losing coolant
>To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
>Date: Friday, October 24, 2008, 8:25 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Leroy, would you double check that? The exact line in my
>manual reads (split between front and back pages):
>
>
>
>"Remove cap and fill radiator surge tank to the top of sight glass."
>
>
>
>That is what I do, and is significantly different than "to the top."
>
>
>
>There is a large air space above the top of sight glass, which in theory
>should handle heat-induced expansion without overflow.
>
>
>
>On 10/24/2008 at 4:19 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:
>
>
>
>>I looked in my BB manual and it is called a surge tank and
>
>>states it should be filled to the top.

[Leroy Eckert]

Don, now that the level of the fluid is corrected, what happens to that air space in the tank. Does it compress????when fluid level rises?? Mine has never blown out a drop of fluid. Leroy Eckert 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors Dahlonega, GA Royale Conversion --- On Fri, 10/24/08, Leroy Eckert wrote: From: Leroy Eckert Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Losing coolant To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 24, 2008, 10:14 PM You are correct Don. It initially says fill to the top, page one and goes through a bleed process through the gate valves for bleeding air out of the engine and heater system. When finished it says fill to the top of the site glass presumably to allow for heat expansion without dropping it on the ground. page 2. Sounds like that famous radio commentator, what's his name??? Leroy Eckert 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors Dahlonega, GA Royale Conversion --- On Fri, 10/24/08, Don Bradner wrote: From: Don Bradner arcatapet. com> Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Losing coolant To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, October 24, 2008, 8:25 PM Leroy, would you double check that? The exact line in my manual reads (split between front and back pages): "Remove cap and fill radiator surge tank to the top of sight glass." That is what I do, and is significantly different than "to the top." There is a large air space above the top of sight glass, which in theory should handle heat-induced expansion without overflow. On 10/24/2008 at 4:19 PM Leroy Eckert wrote: >I looked in my BB manual and it is called a surge tank and >states it should be filled to the top.

[Don Bradner]

It would compress until it reached the pressure setting of the cap, after which
air would escape from the cap.

Fluid would only escape when it is hot enough to expand to fill the entire tank,
at which point it would escape sufficiently to maintain the same pressure.

Expansion is temperature related. Mine gets hotter than yours, because you've
replaced your alarmstat for a lower-temp one, right?

Mine peaks normally at 197 unless the fan is overridden and constantly on.

My problem with assuming that's the issue is that I've pushed 200 on hills in
the past, including on this trip, without losing coolant.

Don Bradner
90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
My location: http://www.bbirdmaps.com/user2.cfm?user=1

On 10/24/2008 at 7:27 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:

>Don, now that the level of the fluid is corrected, what happens to that
>air space in the tank. Does it compress????when fluid level rises?? Mine
>has never blown out a drop of fluid.
>Leroy Eckert
>1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
>Dahlonega, GA
>Royale Conversion

[Joyce and Richard Hayden]

Rad. caps are not expensive. About 2 years ago I was loosing some coolant and was instructed by my mechanic to use constant tension clamps on all of the silicone hose. They are spendy. I used the cone variety rather than the spring type.

Dick Hayden - '87 PT 38 - Lake Stevens, WA - in Corning,CA tonight. Tranny still not quite right but working.

----- Original Message -----

From: "sgureasko@gmail.com"

To: "WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com"

Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 6:18 AM

Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Losing Coolant

Mine is 7lb., old, but pressure tested good. Only leaks are temp
related(outside temp), and coming from clamps. I installed new rad
last year. No lose after clamp tighting. Remember there is a torque
rating on tighting the clamps and some clamps are made offshore. That
throws the
torque rating out the window.

Steve Gureasko
90WBWL40 Jus Chillin
Ponchatoula, La. currently in chilly Eureka Springs Ark.

[Joyce and Richard Hayden]

Actually it was not at all hard to find.

Dick Hayden - '87 PT 38 - Lake Stevens, WA

----- Original Message -----

From: "aeonix1@mac.com"

To: "WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com"

Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 11:57 AM

Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Losing coolant

I suspect that 13-15 psi caps are more common. A 7 psi cap might
actually prove to be hard to find. (I've never had a vehicle with
such a low pressure cap, except for a Model A Ford (with original
engine) I had years ago... that I don't think was pressurized at all.

Pete Masterson
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
"aeonix1%40mac.com"
On the road at Max Meadows, VA

On Oct 23, 2008, at 10:05 PM, Don Bradner wrote:

> The parts book that came with this coach calls for a 7 lb. I have
> no idea when this one was changed to a 13 lb.
>
> There is a thread back in March of 2007 starting with post 20947
> where Curt Sprenger said:
>
> "Coolant Pressure Control Cap...the 92 series manual recommends all
> series 92 on-highway vehicle engines use a minimum 9 psi control cap.
> My radiator cap is a 7 psi. Is this a Bluebird change? What are others
> using? Should I be concerned? The engine temperature runs at about 185
> to 195."
>
> That thread ended up being more about alarmstats, misters, etc. but
> besides you (Leroy) mentioning that you had a 13, Pete posted in
> that thread that the shop that did his radiator replaced with a 15.
>
> I'm going to guess that a higher one gets used precisely because
> the 7 lb, as it loses strength, tends to let more slop out.
>
> If you think about it, a 7 lb with a boiling point somewhere above
> 230 degrees is into temperatures where the engine would be in real
> trouble anyway. Increasing the cap pressure to 13 takes boiling to
> 250, but does that really matter?
>
> I'm thinking I will go looking for a new cap tomorrow as an easy
> "maybe fix", and I will look for one around the same 13 lbs.
>
> On 10/23/2008 at 6:17 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:
>
>> I have a 13lb cap also and it is old. Same year.
>> Leroy Eckert
>> 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
>> Dahlonega, GA
>> Royale Conversion
>>
>> --- On Thu, 10/23/08, Joyce and Richard Hayden <"rhhayden%40msn.com">
>> wrote:
>> From: Joyce and Richard Hayden <"rhhayden%40msn.com">
>> Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Losing coolant
>> To: "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"
>> Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 8:32 PM
>>
>> Don, I would wonder why someone has put a 13 # cap on your cooling
>> system. The standard for these engines have been 7#. I haven't
>> heard
>> of very many with anything above that.
>>
>> Dick Hayden - '87 PT 38 - Lake Stevens, WA - still in Medford, OR
>> but on
>> the road again tomorrow after the tranny is fixed.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Leroy Eckert]

Thanks, I thought that is what would happen. I have been reading the DD service manual, several sections regarding cooling and PM. There are two references to the pressure cap, a 7psi and a 9psi. No recommendation. To pressure test the radiator it says to run the pressure up to 15-20psi, do not exceed 20 psi and look for leaks and or leak down. My 13psi cap was on the coach when I purchased it and all has been well. I was wondering about the seals on the water cooled piston sleeves and how water pressure would affect them. With a 20 psi test procedure a 13psi cap should be OK. But now I wonder if I should change to 9psi. On the tank fluid level, the DD manual says to fill the tank to 2" below the neck or the manufacturers recommendation. In our case, BB says above the site glass. Yes I changed my alarnstat and mine runs a bit cooler than yours. Leroy Eckert 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors Dahlonega, GA --- On Fri, 10/24/08, Don Bradner wrote: From: Don Bradner Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Losing coolant To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 24, 2008, 10:56 PM It would compress until it reached the pressure setting of the cap, after which air would escape from the cap. Fluid would only escape when it is hot enough to expand to fill the entire tank, at which point it would escape sufficiently to maintain the same pressure. Expansion is temperature related. Mine gets hotter than yours, because you've replaced your alarmstat for a lower-temp one, right? Mine peaks normally at 197 unless the fan is overridden and constantly on. My problem with assuming that's the issue is that I've pushed 200 on hills in the past, including on this trip, without losing coolant. Don Bradner 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder" My location: http://www.bbirdmaps. com/user2. cfm?user= 1 On 10/24/2008 at 7:27 PM Leroy Eckert wrote: >Don, now that the level of the fluid is corrected, what happens to that >air space in the tank. Does it compress???? when fluid level rises?? Mine >has never blown out a drop of fluid. >Leroy Eckert >1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors >Dahlonega, GA >Royale Conversion

[Joyce and Richard Hayden]

Don, I'm sure you know but say it anyway, don't forget to add the appropriate SCA's. It's important if the HD antifreeze does not already have it added.

Dick Hayden - '87 PT 38 - Lake Stevens, WA

----- Original Message -----

From: "bluethunder@arcatapet.com"

To: "WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com"

Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 12:18 PM

Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Losing coolant

I took my 13 lb cap to an Autozone 30 miles away today (rain, rain, rain, nothing better to do!) and had it tested. Appeared to work OK; there was a slight bleed down, but the guy thought it was his tester.

I planned to get a new cap regardless, and ended up getting a 7 lb. Choices were 7, 13, 16, 18, and 20. The new 7 showed about the same slow bleed down, so he was probably right about his tester.

Went to a nearby NAPA next because I needed more coolant and Autozone didn't have any heavy-duty stuff. While I was there I asked if they had a 9 lb, and was told, no, 7 and 13 but no 9.

Tomorrow will be the test.

On 10/24/2008 at 2:57 PM Pete Masterson wrote:

>I suspect that 13-15 psi caps are more common. A 7 psi cap might
>actually prove to be hard to find. (I've never had a vehicle with
>such a low pressure cap, except for a Model A Ford (with original
>engine) I had years ago... that I don't think was pressurized at all.
>
>Pete Masterson
>'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
>"aeonix1%40mac.com"
>On the road at Max Meadows, VA
>
>
>
>On Oct 23, 2008, at 10:05 PM, Don Bradner wrote:
>
>> The parts book that came with this coach calls for a 7 lb. I have
>> no idea when this one was changed to a 13 lb.
>>
>> There is a thread back in March of 2007 starting with post 20947
>> where Curt Sprenger said:
>>
>> "Coolant Pressure Control Cap...the 92 series manual recommends all
>> series 92 on-highway vehicle engines use a minimum 9 psi control cap.
>> My radiator cap is a 7 psi. Is this a Bluebird change? What are others
>> using? Should I be concerned? The engine temperature runs at about 185
>> to 195."
>>
>> That thread ended up being more about alarmstats, misters, etc. but
>> besides you (Leroy) mentioning that you had a 13, Pete posted in
>> that thread that the shop that did his radiator replaced with a 15.
>>
>> I'm going to guess that a higher one gets used precisely because
>> the 7 lb, as it loses strength, tends to let more slop out.
>>
>> If you think about it, a 7 lb with a boiling point somewhere above
>> 230 degrees is into temperatures where the engine would be in real
>> trouble anyway. Increasing the cap pressure to 13 takes boiling to
>> 250, but does that really matter?
>>
>> I'm thinking I will go looking for a new cap tomorrow as an easy
>> "maybe fix", and I will look for one around the same 13 lbs.
>>
>> On 10/23/2008 at 6:17 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:
>>
>>> I have a 13lb cap also and it is old. Same year.
>>> Leroy Eckert
>>> 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
>>> Dahlonega, GA
>>> Royale Conversion
>>>
>>> --- On Thu, 10/23/08, Joyce and Richard Hayden <"rhhayden%40msn.com">
>>> wrote:
>>> From: Joyce and Richard Hayden <"rhhayden%40msn.com">
>>> Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Losing coolant
>>> To: "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"
>>> Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 8:32 PM
>>>
>>> Don, I would wonder why someone has put a 13 # cap on your cooling
>>> system. The standard for these engines have been 7#. I haven't
>>> heard
>>> of very many with anything above that.
>>>
>>> Dick Hayden - '87 PT 38 - Lake Stevens, WA - still in Medford, OR
>>> but on
>>> the road again tomorrow after the tranny is fixed.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Gregory OConnor]

Leroy, I'm looking for info to support theneed for a puke tank recovery system. I have also looked for closed systems or systems that direct you to leave the closed system full of two cubic foot of air as bluebird direct.

Here is some good reading onCavitation at the end of the page is a list of way good articles. Very informative on all cooling aspects.

I know as Don says, things cool as they are and all is well but it doesnt hurt to learn and toss some ideas at proofand criticism.

Greg94ptCa

- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Leroy Eckert wrote:
>
> Thanks, I thought that is what would happen. I have been reading the DD service manual, several sections regarding cooling and PM. There are two references to the pressure cap, a 7psi and a 9psi. No recommendation. To pressure test the radiator it says to run the pressure up to 15-20psi, do not exceed 20 psi and look for leaks and or leak down. My 13psi cap was on the coach when I purchased it and all has been well. I was wondering about the seals on the water cooled piston sleeves and how water pressure would affect them. With a 20 psi test procedure a 13psi cap should be OK. But now I wonder if I should change to 9psi.
> On the tank fluid level, the DD manual says to fill the tank to 2" below the neck or the manufacturers recommendation. In our case, BB says above the site glass.
> Yes I changed my alarnstat and mine runs a bit cooler than yours.
>
> Leroy Eckert
> 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
> Dahlonega, GA
>
> --- On Fri, 10/24/08, Don Bradner bluethunder@... wrote:
> From: Don Bradner bluethunder@...
> Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Losing coolant
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, October 24, 2008, 10:56 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> It would compress until it reached the pressure setting of the cap, after which air would escape from the cap.
>
>
>
> Fluid would only escape when it is hot enough to expand to fill the entire tank, at which point it would escape sufficiently to maintain the same pressure.
>
>
>
> Expansion is temperature related. Mine gets hotter than yours, because you've replaced your alarmstat for a lower-temp one, right?
>
>
>
> Mine peaks normally at 197 unless the fan is overridden and constantly on.
>
>
>
> My problem with assuming that's the issue is that I've pushed 200 on hills in the past, including on this trip, without losing coolant.
>
>
>
> Don Bradner
>
> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
>
> My location: http://www.bbirdmaps. com/user2. cfm?user= 1
>
>
>
> On 10/24/2008 at 7:27 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:
>
>
>
> >Don, now that the level of the fluid is corrected, what happens to that
>
> >air space in the tank. Does it compress???? when fluid level rises?? Mine
>
> >has never blown out a drop of fluid.
>
> >Leroy Eckert
>
> >1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
>
> >Dahlonega, GA
>
> >Royale Conversion
>