What is the best tempeture to run a 3208 engine?

[Jon]

Just completed reading about Andy's trouble up in Reno and was
wondering at what temperature should these old 3208'S run at?

And I have just drove down to California from Washington and the
average temperature outside during the day coming down I-5 in Redding
were over 100 degrees. Could this possibly have cause part of his
problems with this heat situation?

Also is there anything that you can use in your coolant to lubricate
the water pump?

Oh yes one more thing, would you think when you are in really hot
weather it would be better to run your machine at night to wherever
your going?

Jon
Rebel Bird

[Don Bradner]

There is no question that a rig will run cooler on a 75 degree night than a 100
degree day, and that doesn't even count the solar radiation effects.

Unfortunately for us, and I'm sure some others here, my night vision is a
fraction of what it once was, and so I avoid driving at night unless I
absolutely have to.

The alternative is to slow down. Under any condition, slower speeds while
keeping the revs up will be cooler than pedal-to-the-metal. I am not the slow
sort by inclination, but I have a wife who will let me know if I'm being crazy


Don Bradner
90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
Eureka, CA

On 8/31/2007 at 5:16 AM Jon wrote:

>Just completed reading about Andy's trouble up in Reno and was
>wondering at what temperature should these old 3208'S run at?
>
>And I have just drove down to California from Washington and the
>average temperature outside during the day coming down I-5 in Redding
>were over 100 degrees. Could this possibly have cause part of his
>problems with this heat situation?
>
>Also is there anything that you can use in your coolant to lubricate
>the water pump?
>
>Oh yes one more thing, would you think when you are in really hot
>weather it would be better to run your machine at night to wherever
>your going?
>
>Jon
>Rebel Bird

[davidkerryedwards]

On my 82 Fc 3208 NA with an aftermarket turbo, the electric fan clutch kicks in
at about
195 degrees and immediately starts dropping the temperature. (I haven't
installed the
manual switch overrride yet but I will). When climbing grades in temperatures
above the
mid-90's the clutch almost always kicks in and reduces the temperature. If the
temperature of the engine kept climbing, instead of dropping, I'd slow down or
pull over
and let it cool down for a while. This has never happened to me.
I also think it is quite premature to conclude that Andy's problems were caused
by high
coolant temperatures when climbing grades in hot weather. I don't think anyone
knows
why the head gasket failed. It's possible that the head gasket failed first,
causing higher
coolant temperatures. It seems extremely unlikely to me that running a 3208 at
200
degrees, which is the temperature that Andy reported, would by itself cause
headgasket
failure. Headgaskets do fail, and a google shows reports of people replacing
headgaskets
on 3208s.
I think there's an odd combination of events associated with Andy's problems
that should
be considered. He reported repeated problems with belts coming off earlier this
year,
then he had a fan clutch bearing failure,then he had a water pump failure,
replaced it, then
had the head gasket failure. Alll those items are associated with the cooling
system.
There's something odd going on. I'd want to try to figure out if these problems
are related
and perhaps have a common cause. He also said his coolant lines to the rest of
the coach
were disconnected. Is it possible that blocking those lines can cause
inadequate coolant
circulation or high pressure leading to the other problems?

Kerry
82 FC 35
Denver

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jon" wrote:
>
> Just completed reading about Andy's trouble up in Reno and was
> wondering at what temperature should these old 3208'S run at?
>
> And I have just drove down to California from Washington and the
> average temperature outside during the day coming down I-5 in Redding
> were over 100 degrees. Could this possibly have cause part of his
> problems with this heat situation?
>
> Also is there anything that you can use in your coolant to lubricate
> the water pump?
>
> Oh yes one more thing, would you think when you are in really hot
> weather it would be better to run your machine at night to wherever
> your going?
>
> Jon
> Rebel Bird
>

[Gregory OConnor]

Engine water temps are a result of friction of operation and the
ability to cool. Any one factor in the equation will change the
operation temp. To keep the water cool does not mean that you have
reduced the engine stress. if you over build the cooling ability you
lose the temp stress gauge. Engine oil temp is closer to a gauge
of friction stress. but engine oil is effected also by water temp.

When I make a hill climb. I always down shift and find a range where
I can maintain a higher rpm but have the ability to move the bus
faster by dumping more fuel. This tells me I am running the bus with
less stress that the maximum engineered .

It is quite possible to overheat an engine on a long down hill run
with engine backpressure and over the limit rpm. I find a down hill
comfort zone there I can relax knowing if the little 12 volt wire
that is keeping my tranny in drive fails I can still use my brakes
independent of any jake, driveline, exhaust, or trans relarder. Down
hill is a chance for the fleetwoods to catch up.

Its shamefull that he can return tuesday to 'good news' that it is
not a $20K repair but simply a $6,500.00 head gasket job. I had a
government fund letter requesting over $100,000 for underpayment of
club dues. After a review by a private mathmatician, he said, "I have
good news, you only owe $17,800.00",,, no relief was experienced.



GregoryO'Connor
94ptRomolandCa

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "davidkerryedwards"
wrote:
>
> On my 82 Fc 3208 NA with an aftermarket turbo, the electric fan
clutch kicks in at about
> 195 degrees and immediately starts dropping the temperature. (I
haven't installed the
> manual switch overrride yet but I will). When climbing grades in
temperatures above the
> mid-90's the clutch almost always kicks in and reduces the
temperature. If the
> temperature of the engine kept climbing, instead of dropping, I'd
slow down or pull over
> and let it cool down for a while. This has never happened to me.
> I also think it is quite premature to conclude that Andy's problems
were caused by high
> coolant temperatures when climbing grades in hot weather. I don't
think anyone knows
> why the head gasket failed. It's possible that the head gasket
failed first, causing higher
> coolant temperatures. It seems extremely unlikely to me that
running a 3208 at 200
> degrees, which is the temperature that Andy reported, would by
itself cause headgasket
> failure. Headgaskets do fail, and a google shows reports of people
replacing headgaskets
> on 3208s.
> I think there's an odd combination of events associated with Andy's
problems that should
> be considered. He reported repeated problems with belts coming off
earlier this year,
> then he had a fan clutch bearing failure,then he had a water pump
failure, replaced it, then
> had the head gasket failure. Alll those items are associated with
the cooling system.
> There's something odd going on. I'd want to try to figure out if
these problems are related
> and perhaps have a common cause. He also said his coolant lines to
the rest of the coach
> were disconnected. Is it possible that blocking those lines can
cause inadequate coolant
> circulation or high pressure leading to the other problems?
>
> Kerry
> 82 FC 35
> Denver
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jon" wrote:
> >
> > Just completed reading about Andy's trouble up in Reno and was
> > wondering at what temperature should these old 3208'S run at?
> >
> > And I have just drove down to California from Washington and the
> > average temperature outside during the day coming down I-5 in
Redding
> > were over 100 degrees. Could this possibly have cause part of his
> > problems with this heat situation?
> >
> > Also is there anything that you can use in your coolant to
lubricate
> > the water pump?
> >
> > Oh yes one more thing, would you think when you are in really hot
> > weather it would be better to run your machine at night to
wherever
> > your going?
> >
> > Jon
> > Rebel Bird
> >
>

[Chuck Wheeler]

One thing that can cause head gasket failure, and other problems, is bogging
the engine. Bogging will not necessarily cause high coolant temperature
readings. The 3208 has a short stroke and has to turn faster than most
diesels used over the road. Except under very light throttle it should not
be operated below 2000 rpm. The Allison should shift down about 2000 rpm
under heavy throttle. If you are operating in the 2000-2200 rpm range and
do not have throttle response it is probably a good idea to slow down and
downshift. Also remember that the gauge is indicating the average
temperature not the peaks.



Somewhere I read an interesting article on 3208s when I was trying to
understand how you could find them with various ratings from 175 to 400 hp.
Basically the "life" curve was inverse to the hp curve. The low hp version
had an expected life of 10,000-12,000 hours. The 400 version was 2500 to
3000 hours. The criteria was will a particular version outlast the
warranty in the application. Example would be a pleasure boat that might
see 100 to 300 hours a year would get a 300 hp version and a bobcat that
would be operated 1600 to 1800 hours a year would get a 175 hp version. I
will try to find the link to this. It was interesting reading.



Just my thoughts, but if I were Andy I would consider replacing the engine
if I liked the coach and was planning to keep it. It is a lot of money, but
so is selling his current BB for a few thousand and then buying another that
may present the same problems in the future. If he puts a good reman engine
in it he then knows what he has. The price does sound a little high. The
local cat dealer was estimating 14-15K if I had to replace mine.



- Chuck Wheeler -

FC 31SB Fort Worth TX

_____

From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of davidkerryedwards
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 9:10 AM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: What is the best tempeture to run a 3208
engine?



On my 82 Fc 3208 NA with an aftermarket turbo, the electric fan clutch kicks
in at about
195 degrees and immediately starts dropping the temperature. (I haven't
installed the
manual switch overrride yet but I will). When climbing grades in
temperatures above the
mid-90's the clutch almost always kicks in and reduces the temperature. If
the
temperature of the engine kept climbing, instead of dropping, I'd slow down
or pull over
and let it cool down for a while. This has never happened to me.
I also think it is quite premature to conclude that Andy's problems were
caused by high
coolant temperatures when climbing grades in hot weather. I don't think
anyone knows
why the head gasket failed. It's possible that the head gasket failed first,
causing higher
coolant temperatures. It seems extremely unlikely to me that running a 3208
at 200
degrees, which is the temperature that Andy reported, would by itself cause
headgasket
failure. Headgaskets do fail, and a google shows reports of people replacing
headgaskets
on 3208 I think there's an odd combination of events associated with Andy's
problems that should
be considered. He reported repeated problems with belts coming off earlier
this year,
then he had a fan clutch bearing failure,then he had a water pump failure,
replaced it, then
had the head gasket failure. Alll those items are associated with the
cooling system.
There's something odd going on. I'd want to try to figure out if these
problems are related
and perhaps have a common cause. He also said his coolant lines to the rest
of the coach
were disconnected. Is it possible that blocking those lines can cause
inadequate coolant
circulation or high pressure leading to the other problems?

Kerry
82 FC 35
Denver

--- In WanderlodgeForum@
yahoogroups.com, "Jon" wrote:
>
> Just completed reading about Andy's trouble up in Reno and was
> wondering at what temperature should these old 3208'S run at?
>
> And I have just drove down to California from Washington and the
> average temperature outside during the day coming down I-5 in Redding
> were over 100 degrees. Could this possibly have cause part of his
> problems with this heat situation?
>
> Also is there anything that you can use in your coolant to lubricate
> the water pump?
>
> Oh yes one more thing, would you think when you are in really hot
> weather it would be better to run your machine at night to wherever
> your going?
>
> Jon
> Rebel Bird
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[whistles_n_bells]

Just thought I'd throw this out to the group. When I was driving for a
living in the 50's and 60's - and in more recent years (buses) - we
would often-times turn on the engine-provided coach heat to get the
water circulating in those many feet of plumbing thereby cooling the
water. This of course is in the warmer months of the year when one is
thinking air conditioning and not heat, of all things. Also, on the
engine driven air conditioning, we would shut it down until the temp
gage came down to the 190-200 degree range. It was always explained to
the passengers (by way of the PA) why the coach was getting warmer.
Obviously, this is taking into account that fans and radiator cooling
functions are in good working order.

The engines involved were DD 671, 8V71 and recently, Cummins M11. I
would think that the setup on the PT Birds and other "pushers" would be
similar - with regard to the coach heating layout.

Again, just some recollections.

P.S. Welcome home Ralph - glad your procedure is behind you. I always
enjoy your posts.

Joe (Pappy) Hagan
St. George, UT
Wannabe



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jon" wrote:
>
> Just completed reading about Andy's trouble up in Reno and was
> wondering at what temperature should these old 3208'S run at?
>
> And I have just drove down to California from Washington and the
> average temperature outside during the day coming down I-5 in Redding
> were over 100 degrees. Could this possibly have cause part of his
> problems with this heat situation?
>
> Also is there anything that you can use in your coolant to lubricate
> the water pump?
>
> Oh yes one more thing, would you think when you are in really hot
> weather it would be better to run your machine at night to wherever
> your going?
>
> Jon
> Rebel Bird
>

[Jon]

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "whistles_n_bells"
wrote:
>
> Just thought I'd throw this out to the group. When I was driving
for a
> living in the 50's and 60's - and in more recent years (buses) - we
> would often-times turn on the engine-provided coach heat to get the
> water circulating in those many feet of plumbing thereby cooling the
> water. This of course is in the warmer months of the year when one
is
> thinking air conditioning and not heat, of all things. Also, on the
> engine driven air conditioning, we would shut it down until the temp
> gage came down to the 190-200 degree range. It was always
explained to
> the passengers (by way of the PA) why the coach was getting warmer.
> Obviously, this is taking into account that fans and radiator
cooling
> functions are in good working order.


Very interesting on the idea of using the coaches interior heaters
for cooling the engine cooling water down. I will give that a try if
and when my temperature gage is above the normal operating
temperature for my coach.

I don't think anybody mentioned yet but just what is the norm for
these engines as far as heat ranges go?

And one more question how do you compute engine hours to driving
hours? I know this sounds dumb but my old brain just doesn't want to
function for that easy answer.

Jon
Rebel Bird
Bremerton Washington


>
> The engines involved were DD 671, 8V71 and recently, Cummins M11. I
> would think that the setup on the PT Birds and other "pushers"
would be
> similar - with regard to the coach heating layout.
>
> Again, just some recollections.
>
> P.S. Welcome home Ralph - glad your procedure is behind you. I
always
> enjoy your posts.
>
> Joe (Pappy) Hagan
> St. George, UT
> Wannabe
>
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jon" wrote:
> >
> > Just completed reading about Andy's trouble up in Reno and was
> > wondering at what temperature should these old 3208'S run at?
> >
> > And I have just drove down to California from Washington and the
> > average temperature outside during the day coming down I-5 in
Redding
> > were over 100 degrees. Could this possibly have cause part of his
> > problems with this heat situation?
> >
> > Also is there anything that you can use in your coolant to
lubricate
> > the water pump?
> >
> > Oh yes one more thing, would you think when you are in really hot
> > weather it would be better to run your machine at night to
wherever
> > your going?
> >
> > Jon
> > Rebel Bird
> >
>

[davidkerryedwards]

I've got 100k miles with about 3000 hrs. Pretty typical I think.

Kerry
82 FC 35
Denver
>
> And one more question how do you compute engine hours to driving
> hours? I know this sounds dumb but my old brain just doesn't want to
> function for that easy answer.
>
> Jon
> Rebel Bird
> Bremerton Washington
>

[Curt Sprenger]

Our coach has 93,000 miles and 2,030 engine hours; averaging about 46 miles
per hour. The coach has been on the highway, not a lot of city driving or
ideling time.

On 9/1/07, davidkerryedwards wrote:
>
> I've got 100k miles with about 3000 hrs. Pretty typical I think.
>
> Kerry
> 82 FC 35
> Denver
> >
> > And one more question how do you compute engine hours to driving
> > hours? I know this sounds dumb but my old brain just doesn't want to
> > function for that easy answer.
> >
> > Jon
> > Rebel Bird
> > Bremerton Washington
> >
>
>
>



--
Curt Sprenger
1987 PT38 8V92 "MacAttack Racing"
Anaheim Hills, CA


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]