Transporting a new purchase

[Steve Pfiffner]

Modern Texas titles (the last decade or so) come with a detachable
form that you
date, sign and mail to the State with a few bucks and you are relieved
of all legal
responsibility. For older titles the form is available at your county
tax office. Of course every stae is different. I believe a Bill of Sale
is enough.

Steve
BB Wannabee


----Original Message----
From: jehdds@...
Date: 12/06/2007 18:17
To:
Subj: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Transporting a new purchase

If you happened to be involved in an accident or a traffic violation
and you are pulled over what do they ask for? Your license, your
insurance, and your registration. Anyone argue with that? Think a
bill of sale is good enough? I would not sell a car and let a fellow
drive it on my registration and I would not ask to do so in return.

[Ryan Wright]

On Dec 6, 2007 3:15 PM, Don Bradner wrote:
>
> If you take delivery of a vehicle in California (from a dealer), you owe
> sales tax. Since there are no reciprocals, it is possible some other state
> might not give you any credit for that.

I just bought a car from a dealer in San Diego earlier this year. I
took delivery in San Diego and drove it home. I paid only my 8.3%
Washington State sales tax.

Now, it's possible I paid California sales tax and Washington charged
me the difference between their tax and mine when I registered the
vehicle after getting home. I don't recall exactly how the tax was
distributed and don't have my paperwork handy. I do know that I did
not pay a penny more than my normal sales tax as if I'd bought the car
here in Washington.

> Because of that, and the fact that dealers know all about the laws of their
> own state, I would not spend a lot of time worrying. If you buy from a
> dealer, ask how it is handled there. If you buy privately, just get a Bill
> of Sale (I would have it notarized) and drive away.

Exactly. This really is not something to worry about.

-Ryan

[Don Bradner]

On 12/7/2007 at 12:17 AM bubblerboy64 wrote:

>If you happened to be involved in an accident or a traffic violation
>and you are pulled over what do they ask for? Your license, your
>insurance, and your registration. Anyone argue with that? Think a
>bill of sale is good enough?

Typically you will not have just a bill of sale. You will have the former
owner's title or registration, with a release signature. That combination will
establish ownership, and if the bill of sale (particularly a notarized one) is
less than 30 days old it should be acceptable in any conceivable situation.

In fact, generally just the conveyed title is enough. The bill of sale is
primarily to establish price, for tax purposes.

In looking around, there may be some states that don't offer title, and proof of
ownership is the prior registration plus a bill of sale. "May be" because I
couldn't find such a state, just other states saying that, if the prior state
was one that didn't use title you would need registration and BOS.

[Ryan Wright]

On Dec 6, 2007 4:17 PM, bubblerboy64 wrote:
>
> If you happened to be involved in an accident or a traffic violation
> and you are pulled over what do they ask for? Your license, your
> insurance, and your registration. Anyone argue with that? Think a
> bill of sale is good enough?

Yes, actually, a bill of sale is good enough. Haven't you bought a car
from a dealership before? You never leave with a registration, at
least not in the states I've bought vehicles in. You pay the fees and
the registration is mailed to you in a couple of weeks. In the
meantime you are driving a car that hasn't yet been registered. This
is allowed because you just bought it and most states - I'll bet every
state - has a grace period for vehicle purchases.

So, yes, you show them a recent bill of sale and that's good enough,
you're on your way.

> I would not sell a car and let a fellow
> drive it on my registration and I would not ask to do so in return.

Then how do you ever expect to sell a car? No, you don't give your
registration paperwork to the guy, but he is technically driving "on
your registration" as far as the state is concerned until he registers
it in his name. Every time you sell a car, do you take the person down
to the local DMV and make them transfer it into their name? Would make
it awfully hard to sell a car to someone from out of state.

I've sold cars to people from out of state many times. You simply sign
the title over and send them on their way. You then fill out a little
form at the bottom of the title and mail that to the state - that
certifies you sold the vehicle to so-and-so on such-and-such date.
That form is your waiver of liability - if the guy does something
stupid, he is on the hook even if the registration is still
technically in your name. Sure, the cops might come by your door but
you simply say, "I sold it to this guy and mailed the form off
yesterday." Case closed.

> I don't loan cars to people either but that is essentially what you
> are doing legally until the registration is changed over or at least
> it could be interpreted that way in the you guess it a "court of
> law".

No, that's an incorrect statement. You aren't loaning the car to
anyone. You've signed the title over to them. The car is therefore
sold. The registration has absolutely nothing to do with ownership.

Once you report to the state that the car has been sold they cancel
the registration.

This is not rocket science, folks. People have been buying and selling
cars for a really long time now. The authorities have it all figured
out; you don't have to transfer title or registration the second the
car trades hands. That is what titles and purchase agreements are for.
Yes, these can replace the registration for a short period of time
while you get the car home.

Think about it: If things really worked as poorly as you seem to think
they do, nobody could ever buy a car on a weekend or holiday or after
5pm because the local DMV office is closed. Yet people buy cars when
the DMV is closed ALL THE TIME. In fact I would venture a guess the
vast majority of cars are sold during evenings and weekends, after DMV
hours, and you know what? People get along just fine because it's not
illegal anywhere in this country to drive your newly purchased car
around for a few days until you can get down to the local DMV office
and get your registration in order.

> I checked with my local DMV in
> Pa and they told me that as far as Pa was concerned if you did not
> have a dealers tag you better have the vehicle trailered.

You talked to some idiot at the DMV office. That does not mean what he
said was the law. Call your local police department instead. Tell them
you're buying a car from some guy on the other side of the state and
you need to drive it home but you're picking it up on Saturday and
won't be able to register it until the DMV opens on Monday. Ask them
if that's OK. Then you'll have your answer.

> And as far as a binder not being necessary because the insurance
> company gives you 30 days. I don't trust that one either. I can't
> repeat "insurance companies are our friends" over and over enough
> that I want to take any chances with them. So I get the binder in
> writing which of course you have to have to get that temporary tag.

You're making this way more difficult than it has to be. My freshly
signed title has always sufficed in place of a registration and
insurance cards for my other vehicles have always sufficed in place of
an insurance card on the new vehicle I just purchased. Just give the
cop the "sir yes sir" he wants to hear and you'll be on your merry
way.

-Ryan

[Gardner Yeaw]

Again, Thank you all for your input and experience.

From the many responses I gather that If I believe I am going to
purchase a particular motorhome privately, then I need to have
a 'state specific' plan in place. That plan may include an
arrangement with a dealer or possably just a visit to the DMV. I
want to be certain that there are no loopholes in the event of an
accident or other situation that may introduce lawyers into the mix.
I have spent a lifetime saveing and preparing for retirement and
I'll be dam$%ed if I will provide an poportunity for someone to take
that away.

Gardner
78FC33

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Ryan Wright"
wrote:
>
> On Dec 6, 2007 3:15 PM, Don Bradner wrote:
> >
> > If you take delivery of a vehicle in California (from a
dealer), you owe
> > sales tax. Since there are no reciprocals, it is possible some
other state
> > might not give you any credit for that.
>
> I just bought a car from a dealer in San Diego earlier this year. I
> took delivery in San Diego and drove it home. I paid only my 8.3%
> Washington State sales tax.
>
> Now, it's possible I paid California sales tax and Washington
charged
> me the difference between their tax and mine when I registered the
> vehicle after getting home. I don't recall exactly how the tax was
> distributed and don't have my paperwork handy. I do know that I did
> not pay a penny more than my normal sales tax as if I'd bought the
car
> here in Washington.
>
> > Because of that, and the fact that dealers know all about the
laws of their
> > own state, I would not spend a lot of time worrying. If you buy
from a
> > dealer, ask how it is handled there. If you buy privately, just
get a Bill
> > of Sale (I would have it notarized) and drive away.
>
> Exactly. This really is not something to worry about.
>
> -Ryan
>

[Michael Brody]

Gardner

In PA you get a temporary plate (I believe 7 days) without paying tax. When you
register the vehicle, you pay. If you paid tax in another state, it is deducted
from the PA tax.

Mike
'97 BMC 40'

Michael Brody
P.O. Box 281
Dresher, PA 19025
(V) 215-572-0663
(F) 215-572-6992

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Howard O. Truitt]

My experience in Georgia,
I do not know the rules of other states but here in Georgia if you buy your new
or used RV, Car, Boat, or other Vehicle from a Ga. dealer you have to pay taxes.
If you buy from an indiviual you do not pay taxes. I bought my BB from a fellow
in Ga. no taxes due. I just recently bought a used Land Cruiser from a Ga.
resident no taxes due. In Ga. it is the responsebility of the seller of a
vehicle to remove the tag[s] and have the tag[s] canceled at the county tag
office. I have canceled them over the phone in the past. The last time I called
to cancel a tag I was told I would have to come in person that there was a form
I had to sign. I went to the tag office with the tag in hand. I told the lady I
needed to cancel the tag she turned to her computer and in a minute or so she
said it was canceled. Turns out I did not need to sign a form. The seller
signs the title over to the buyer and gives the buyer a copy of the old tag
reciept. I always give the buyer a bill of sale that he has to sign. The buyer
then has thirty days to register the vehicle in his name. When I buy a vehicle I
always take a copy of a bill of sale and have the seller fill it out. I have
never purchased a vehicle out of state. I have never been stopped by law
enforsement for not having a tag.
Howard Truitt, Camilla, Ga., 86 PT40



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Pete Masterson]

California also has a form for the selling party to send in that
relieves them from public liability after sale of a vehicle.

Pete Masterson
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
aeonix1@...
On the road at Golden Colorado



On Dec 6, 2007, at 5:32 PM, Steve Pfiffner wrote:

> Modern Texas titles (the last decade or so) come with a detachable
> form that you
> date, sign and mail to the State with a few bucks and you are relieved
> of all legal
> responsibility. <snip>

[Gregory OConnor]

Pete the unsetteling thing with that form is you have no proof of
sending it. I now send them certified with a proof of process
statement signed by a disinterested 3rd party. I keep a copy and
photo copy of buyers driver license. Since your only obligation for
release of liability is to send it, I send 'certified only' and save
the reciept for that proof. I do not send it 'return reciept
requested' because I dont want to add the obligation that the mail
reaches the DMV.

Tim gave a car away several years back and it was impounded and
towed. we got notice that I was the last registered owner and just
let it go. The car was sold at auction for $500.00 and I was held
responsible for the balance of the Tow and storage. I never sent the
form in so I couldn't proclaim I did . my word has more value then
the $1,300 somthing balance. If the charge passed the $2,000.00
threshold, that value would have put me in court making
proclimations but still no proof of sending the form.


GregoryO'Connor
94ptRomolandCa
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Pete Masterson
wrote:
>
> California also has a form for the selling party to send in that
> relieves them from public liability after sale of a vehicle.
>
> Pete Masterson
> '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
> aeonix1@...
> On the road at Golden Colorado
>
>
>
> On Dec 6, 2007, at 5:32 PM, Steve Pfiffner wrote:
>
> > Modern Texas titles (the last decade or so) come with a
detachable
> > form that you
> > date, sign and mail to the State with a few bucks and you are
relieved
> > of all legal
> > responsibility. <snip>
>

[Pete Masterson]

Gregory,

I can understand your concerns -- over the years, I've sold many
automobiles privately as the trade-in values (to dealers) were
generally unacceptable to me. Since I tend to drive cars until the
wheels are ready to fall off, these sales were not always to
(potentially) reliable people. (Cash (as currency) only payment
accepted.)

I have always promptly mailed the release forms to the DMV -- and
I've never had anyone come back to me for unpaid parking tickets or
other liabilities. So, apparently, the forms have worked for me.

I suppose, if you're uncomfortable with mailing the form in, you
could take it in to a DMV office and request that they sign (another
copy) as a delivery receipt -- or give you some other official
acknowledgment that you've turned in a release form. (Although
waiting around a DMV office is far from appealing.)

Pete Masterson
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
aeonix1@...
On the road at Golden Colorado where we're having "light" snowfall
today.



On Dec 7, 2007, at 10:35 AM, Gregory OConnor wrote:

> Pete the unsetteling thing with that form is you have no proof of
> sending it. I now send them certified with a proof of process
> statement signed by a disinterested 3rd party. I keep a copy and
> photo copy of buyers driver license. Since your only obligation for
> release of liability is to send it, I send 'certified only' and save
> the reciept for that proof. I do not send it 'return reciept
> requested' because I dont want to add the obligation that the mail
> reaches the DMV.
>
> Tim gave a car away several years back and it was impounded and
> towed. we got notice that I was the last registered owner and just
> let it go. The car was sold at auction for $500.00 and I was held
> responsible for the balance of the Tow and storage. I never sent the
> form in so I couldn't proclaim I did . my word has more value then
> the $1,300 somthing balance. If the charge passed the $2,000.00
> threshold, that value would have put me in court making
> proclimations but still no proof of sending the form.