Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question for John H.....)
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12-30-2007, 06:39
Post: #11
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Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question for John H.....)
Lot's of great stuff there Mike, thanks for the link.
David Brady '02 LXi, NC Mike Hohnstein wrote: > > google Tuthill Contols. My unit is a RTO6613, all I know is it drops > 500 rpm when I grab OD and I did break in on the propane. > MH > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Donald Watson > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 9:52 AM > Subject: RE: [WanderlodgeForum] Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: > Question for John H.....) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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12-30-2007, 11:15
Post: #12
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Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question for John H.....)
Mike, Tutill Controls, VERY interesting, indeed. Thank you for the link.
Somehow I would think that this might get pricey, but very cool and certainly fits the bill in a custom application. I hadn't taken into account the lower torque produces by the 3208. From what I see, the first one or two digits of the Roadranger model number indicate the torque spec. multiplied x 100. If your 3208 is producing 300+ hp, was the 6613 sufficient in that regard? Donn _____ From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hohnstein Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 12:21 PM To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question for John H.....) google Tuthill Contols. My unit is a RTO6613, all I know is it drops 500 rpm when I grab OD and I did break in on the propane. MH ----- Original Message ----- From: Donald Watson To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 9:52 AM Subject: RE: [WanderlodgeForum] Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question for John H.....) Mike - What "cables for the shifter" are you referring to? Is this some mechanical device to replace the shift tower we're familiar with in tractors? If this FC of yours is the coach with the 4.88 gear set, a single overdrive gear would give a gear reduction of .87 or a final result of 4.24. According to the following current Roadranger publication, these are the ratios for current 13 speed transmissions: http://www.roadrang <http://www.roadranger.com/ecm/groups/pub...ments/cont e> er.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@roadranger/documents/conte nt/rr_rrsl-0001.pdf 7th over (11th gear) = 1.00 (direct) 8th direct (12th gear) = .86 8th over (13th gear) = .73 I'm not sure why 7th over is direct. This reminds me of RTOO (double-overdrive) gearing. I mention RTO series because that was what I was familiar with and what are readily available, but Eaton/Fuller now offer a newer series of transmissions with higher torque ratings. The 18 speed transmissions now split the lower range which I find desirable for heavy loads, but not necessarily of interest in our application. This Eaton publication probably gives a more realistic representation of what one would find in a used RTO 12513 http://www.roadrang <http://www.roadranger.com/ecm/groups/pub...ments/cont e> er.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@roadranger/documents/conte nt/rr_apsl-0189.pdf 7th over (11th gear) = 1.34 8th direct (12th gear) = 1.00 (direct) 8th over (13th gear) = .87 I guess I'll have to play with a spreadsheet and figure out what rpm/speed I'll find in each gear based on various rear end ratios. I appreciate Mike's input on this topic. Donn '76 FC33 South Kingstown, RI From: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups.com [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hohnstein Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 11:35 PM To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question for John H.....) I wuz under the bird measuring today. Looks like it will be pretty easy to do the change. The manual trans is pretty close to the Allison dimensionally and there is plenty of room to run the cables for the shifter. It should be noted the front axle gets in the way of removing the trans. Looks like 8 bolts and the axle will drop down to allow access. I will have, excess to my needs, a low mile reman 643 with the drive line brownie box over drive and air shifter and the custom drive shafts to effect a "bolt in installation" in any FC available. The effect is an 8 speed Allison. I will be undertaking the project in the fall of 08. MH ----- Original Message ----- From: Donald Watson To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 6:08 PM Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question for John H.....) This topic has certainly received my attention, especially as I have not yet changed my 5.29 rear and the last gear of a new transmission would dictate the proper rear ratio. The bulk of my over-the-road experience was with a 13 speed. These 12513 Roadrangers are readily available. I wonder about the travel and shape of the gear shift lever Mike has fashioned. He has apparently done some engineering. My Wanderlodge parts book depicts the clutch pedal assemblies of FCs with manual transmissions. I have a Peterbilt conventional with a 3406B Cat and 12515 15 speed (10 speed normal with 5 speed deep reduction). I could study the parts involved and learn more. Mike once mentioned a problem with resale which might be valid. I wonder how much deterrent a manual transmission would be if it was dialed in correctly and gave the operator more control, more torque when necessary and lots of top-end when the terrain allowed it. Personally, I'd be willing to spend the money and labor to perform the 'upgrade'. I'm just not sure how much work engineering the clutch would entail. I assume a new bell housing would be necessary. With proper selection of the rear end ratio, the number of gears available would insure that the engine could be kept in the optimum rpm range at any road speed. This is definitely 'food for thought'. Donn '76 FC33 South Kingstown, RI ________________________________________ From: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups.com [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 3:37 PM To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Question for John H. on his Wanderlodge's Extended Gri... I hear that. I bought my first medium duty truck due to it's Allison 653. Some time later I was brought up to speed with my first 10 speed rig. ----- Original Message ----- From: bubblerboy64 To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 2:08 PM Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Question for John H. on his Wanderlodge's Extended Gri... Mike, Most people do not want anything to do with a manual shift anything these days but I have to agree that these old FC BB's are dying to have a better transmission. Keep me in the loop. In other words. You work out the bugs and the details and maybe down the road.... John Heckman central Pa 1973 FC > > I had a CVT in my Honda Civic Hybrid. A great concept, worked well in the small car. It seems the OEMs are having problems with CVT as power and weight increase. Probably why you see 6 speed and even some 8 speed automatics becoming more common. > My experience with the 10/13 spd had led me to the conclusion that nothing else will work for me. > A 13 spd with OD is the perfect transmission. Ya can back up at walking speed in LL reverse and top over 90 in 13 over. It don't get better than that in my world. > As a side light, I can offer this experience we had with the race car early in the season. Car ran 9.0 @ 150 mph with the 5 speed manual with air at 1000' corrected. Put a youngster in the car and chose to change to a T-400 with 8" converter. All produced in my shop so we know what the set ups are. Way too hard to find a youngster that can even drive a stick let alone under stand what "power shift" means. I do require he shift the auto matic by hand however. At any rate in comparable conditions the car lost 4 mph and about a tenth of a second, or a little over a car length at the stripe. It's all relative you know. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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12-30-2007, 12:19
Post: #13
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Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question for John H.....)
Any thing that is cool is pricey. 6613 has LL range, or low low. In reverse or
forward LL range the vehicle will idle up a 6% grade. That is what is great about the 13 speed, many ranges from top to bottom. They are a vintage part number, not real hard to find and the perfect transmission for a medium duty application, which a FC is. The unit I have was installed as "good used". It made scary noises for quite a while and might have a million miles on it for all I know. Stuff breaks, ya fix it and move along. All that being said, I doubt any one else will have a manual trans retrofit but me and maybe Woody if he ever gets out of the Army. The shifter and cables will run about $1500 list. MH ----- Original Message ----- From: Donald Watson To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 5:15 PM Subject: RE: [WanderlodgeForum] Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question for John H.....) Mike, Tutill Controls, VERY interesting, indeed. Thank you for the link. Somehow I would think that this might get pricey, but very cool and certainly fits the bill in a custom application. I hadn't taken into account the lower torque produces by the 3208. From what I see, the first one or two digits of the Roadranger model number indicate the torque spec. multiplied x 100. If your 3208 is producing 300+ hp, was the 6613 sufficient in that regard? Donn _____ From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hohnstein Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 12:21 PM To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question for John H.....) google Tuthill Contols. My unit is a RTO6613, all I know is it drops 500 rpm when I grab OD and I did break in on the propane. MH ----- Original Message ----- From: Donald Watson To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 9:52 AM Subject: RE: [WanderlodgeForum] Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question for John H.....) Mike - What "cables for the shifter" are you referring to? Is this some mechanical device to replace the shift tower we're familiar with in tractors? If this FC of yours is the coach with the 4.88 gear set, a single overdrive gear would give a gear reduction of .87 or a final result of 4.24. According to the following current Roadranger publication, these are the ratios for current 13 speed transmissions: http://www.roadrang <http://www.roadranger.com/ecm/groups/pub...ments/cont e> er.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@roadranger/documents/conte nt/rr_rrsl-0001.pdf 7th over (11th gear) = 1.00 (direct) 8th direct (12th gear) = .86 8th over (13th gear) = .73 I'm not sure why 7th over is direct. This reminds me of RTOO (double-overdrive) gearing. I mention RTO series because that was what I was familiar with and what are readily available, but Eaton/Fuller now offer a newer series of transmissions with higher torque ratings. The 18 speed transmissions now split the lower range which I find desirable for heavy loads, but not necessarily of interest in our application. This Eaton publication probably gives a more realistic representation of what one would find in a used RTO 12513 http://www.roadrang <http://www.roadranger.com/ecm/groups/pub...ments/cont e> er.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@roadranger/documents/conte nt/rr_apsl-0189.pdf 7th over (11th gear) = 1.34 8th direct (12th gear) = 1.00 (direct) 8th over (13th gear) = .87 I guess I'll have to play with a spreadsheet and figure out what rpm/speed I'll find in each gear based on various rear end ratios. I appreciate Mike's input on this topic. Donn '76 FC33 South Kingstown, RI From: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups.com [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hohnstein Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 11:35 PM To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question for John H.....) I wuz under the bird measuring today. Looks like it will be pretty easy to do the change. The manual trans is pretty close to the Allison dimensionally and there is plenty of room to run the cables for the shifter. It should be noted the front axle gets in the way of removing the trans. Looks like 8 bolts and the axle will drop down to allow access. I will have, excess to my needs, a low mile reman 643 with the drive line brownie box over drive and air shifter and the custom drive shafts to effect a "bolt in installation" in any FC available. The effect is an 8 speed Allison. I will be undertaking the project in the fall of 08. MH ----- Original Message ----- From: Donald Watson To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 6:08 PM Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Manual Transmission for FC (was Re: Question for John H.....) This topic has certainly received my attention, especially as I have not yet changed my 5.29 rear and the last gear of a new transmission would dictate the proper rear ratio. The bulk of my over-the-road experience was with a 13 speed. These 12513 Roadrangers are readily available. I wonder about the travel and shape of the gear shift lever Mike has fashioned. He has apparently done some engineering. My Wanderlodge parts book depicts the clutch pedal assemblies of FCs with manual transmissions. I have a Peterbilt conventional with a 3406B Cat and 12515 15 speed (10 speed normal with 5 speed deep reduction). I could study the parts involved and learn more. Mike once mentioned a problem with resale which might be valid. I wonder how much deterrent a manual transmission would be if it was dialed in correctly and gave the operator more control, more torque when necessary and lots of top-end when the terrain allowed it. Personally, I'd be willing to spend the money and labor to perform the 'upgrade'. I'm just not sure how much work engineering the clutch would entail. I assume a new bell housing would be necessary. With proper selection of the rear end ratio, the number of gears available would insure that the engine could be kept in the optimum rpm range at any road speed. This is definitely 'food for thought'. Donn '76 FC33 South Kingstown, RI ________________________________________ From: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups.com [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 3:37 PM To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Question for John H. on his Wanderlodge's Extended Gri... I hear that. I bought my first medium duty truck due to it's Allison 653. Some time later I was brought up to speed with my first 10 speed rig. ----- Original Message ----- From: bubblerboy64 To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 2:08 PM Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Question for John H. on his Wanderlodge's Extended Gri... Mike, Most people do not want anything to do with a manual shift anything these days but I have to agree that these old FC BB's are dying to have a better transmission. Keep me in the loop. In other words. You work out the bugs and the details and maybe down the road.... John Heckman central Pa 1973 FC > > I had a CVT in my Honda Civic Hybrid. A great concept, worked well in the small car. It seems the OEMs are having problems with CVT as power and weight increase. Probably why you see 6 speed and even some 8 speed automatics becoming more common. > My experience with the 10/13 spd had led me to the conclusion that nothing else will work for me. > A 13 spd with OD is the perfect transmission. Ya can back up at walking speed in LL reverse and top over 90 in 13 over. It don't get better than that in my world. > As a side light, I can offer this experience we had with the race car early in the season. Car ran 9.0 @ 150 mph with the 5 speed manual with air at 1000' corrected. Put a youngster in the car and chose to change to a T-400 with 8" converter. All produced in my shop so we know what the set ups are. Way too hard to find a youngster that can even drive a stick let alone under stand what "power shift" means. I do require he shift the auto matic by hand however. At any rate in comparable conditions the car lost 4 mph and about a tenth of a second, or a little over a car length at the stripe. It's all relative you know. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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