Let's get serious

[Pete Masterson]

Mike, the going rate in this area is $110-120 per hour for similar
service providers. So, I'd be willing to pay $110-120 per hour to CCW
in the LA area (which has a similar cost structure to northern CA). I
don't know what the prevailing charges are in Ft. Valley, GA -- but
I'd guess that $90 per hour is in the appropriate range.

Where is your shop located? What is the rate you normally charge?
What rates do competing shops in your area charge? There is a
"location utility" involved. I might think the $90 shop rate in
Louisiana sounds "cheap" -- but I'm not in Louisiana.

The rates aren't created in a vacuum. I'm self-employed. The work I
do has a national average cost of about $63 per hour. The regional
price ranges from an average of $40 to $80 per hour. I charge $120
per hour -- and get it -- because that is the market clearing price
for the demand for my services (it helps that I'm a published author
and recognized as an authority at what I do). When my rate was lower
(and closer to the average for my region), I was turning away 3 jobs
for each one I could accept. Now, I don't need to work as hard and I
don't need to reject as many jobs (due to lack of capacity) because
my rate acts to dampen demand for my services.

The same is true for labor rates in an automotive/heavy equipment
shop. I can charge a premium over the national and regional averages
due to my qualifications. But, the price I charge will reflect the
supply (hours available to work) and the demand (clients wishing to
hire me). Likewise, a shop with special BB knowledge may be able to
charge a modest premium over the prevailing charges in any particular
area, but they won't be able to sustain an excessive charge simply
because they have better qualifications. Potential customers will
make a value judgement based on their perception of the going rates.

A Blue Bird owner in Indiana, Colorado, and California will each have
a figure that they consider fair -- but it's based on their
experience with local shops. A Blue Bird owner from Kansas or
Mississippi might consider me crazy to think $120 per hour is fair --
and I might think that $80 or $90 per hour (my guess at Kansas or
Mississippi shop rates) is cheap.

Pete Masterson
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
El Sobrante CA
aeonix1@...



On Jan 6, 2008, at 9:50 AM, Mike Hohnstein wrote:

> It's pretty simple Masterson, what are you willing to pay for a
> dedicated BB tech to deal with issues particular to BB??
> I see some are getting off on tangents regarding this thread, and I
> would ask those who have a point of view to save it and post what
> they are willing to pay. Not interested in anecdotal comments
> about RV related services. We are talking Wanderlodge exclusively
> here.
> My shop does such work and I'm interested in what the "community
> considers fair", as I'm sure the new stewards of Wanderlodge do.
> MH
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Pete Masterson
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 11:38 AM
> Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Let's get serious
>
>
> While I certainly don't expect service to be free, a rate that is
> reasonable in relation to other heavy equipment service providers is
> appropriate -- possibly with a modest premium for special "BB"
> knowledge/experience.
> <snip>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Gregory OConnor]

I dont tink it is simple. Like Pete said, Local shop rate is a
factor of Local overhead cost. Fair is 'going rate' for class 8
trucks and the reason to give business to a specialized shop is that
they are the better choice. the consumer will not be paying shop
Tuition . There is little exclusive parts and systems in a
wonderlodge. that is one of the Wanderlodge feature that makes it
affordable.

I dont think a shop would consider what is fair unless they are
thinking of charging a premium. product familiarity will attract
business and local shop rate should prove profitable.

GregoryO'Connor
94ptRomolandCa

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein"
<MHOHNSTEIN@...> wrote:
>
> It's pretty simple Masterson, what are you willing to pay for a
dedicated BB tech to deal with issues particular to BB??
> I see some are getting off on tangents regarding this thread, and
I would ask those who have a point of view to save it and post what
they are willing to pay. Not interested in anecdotal comments about
RV related services. We are talking Wanderlodge exclusively here.
> My shop does such work and I'm interested in what the "community
considers fair", as I'm sure the new stewards of Wanderlodge do.
> MH
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Pete Masterson
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 11:38 AM
> Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Let's get serious
>
>
> While I certainly don't expect service to be free, a rate that
is
> reasonable in relation to other heavy equipment service
providers is
> appropriate -- possibly with a modest premium for special "BB"
> knowledge/experience.
>
> I know, for example, that Camping World charges rates comparable
with
> other service providers for various basic services (oil change,
> generator service) and for installation of various components
> purchased through their stores (e.g. installing a Remco
transmission
> lube pump on my toad). Unfortunately, the level of BB knowledge
at a
> Camping World store is, essentially, non-existent (although the
> Fairfield CA CW now has a couple of technicians who've
experienced
> the joy of working on at least one 'bird).
>
> There are market realities. CCW/BBCoachworks could not
reasonably
> expect to charge substantially more that the going rate to
perform
> various service tasks on vintage 'birds -- nor would BB owners
be
> likely to seek out such service if reasonably priced (but
perhaps
> lower knowledge-level) alternatives exist. Some premium for the
BB
> knowledge is appropriate -- but only if that actually results in
> better service or faster ability to track down certain unique to
BB
> problems. We all make judgments about the level of quality
(value)
> vs. cost.
>
> There is also a very real locality issue. Service charges vary
> significantly by region of the country. When I had a radiator
service
> (that had experience with heavy equipment) work on my coach,
it's
> location in the San Francisco Bay Area came with an approximate
25%
> higher price than a similar service in central Oklahoma might
have
> charged. So, the Ft. Valley plant might be expected to have
lower
> hourly shop rates than the Southern California CCW facility.
That
> would simply reflect the different costs in land/rent,
prevailing
> wage rates, etc. I also note that I paid about double ($350)
what
> someone else claimed ($180) for a replacement motor for the
generator
> cooling fan. (I might have shopped more for the repair, but I
would
> have had a much higher hassle factor and doubtless would have
had to
> drive much further to deliver/pickup the motor -- so my
convenience
> also factored into the price I was willing to pay.)
>
> Since I'm aware of the regional cost differentials, I accept
that I'm
> going to pay more in the Bay Area on service for many things, as
well
> as for my coach. Indeed, after backing into a pole with my toad
at an
> RV park in Texas, I elected to have the damage repaired by a
small-
> town Texas body shop rather then wait until I returned to
California.
> I figure I saved about 50% on the repair cost. (The damage was
below
> my deductible, so insurance wasn't a factor.)
>
> So, your question is certainly realistic, but is far from simple
to
> answer.
>
> Pete Masterson
> '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
> aeonix1@...
> On the road at
>
> On Jan 5, 2008, at 7:01 PM, Mike Hohnstein wrote:
>
> > I think it's probably realistic to pose a question to the
group as
> > a whole. I think the time has come for members to step up to
the
> > plate, particularly the ones who feel they need a genuine
service
> > facility to fix on ALL Wanderlodges, and state what they view
as a
> > fair labor rate. Have at it you guys, what are you willing to
> > spend, actually pull out the dusty wallet and drop some
dinero.
> > I'm sure 'ol Macy will be VERY interested, and such
information
> > could well be instrumental in justifying such a venture.
> > Don't be shy, let's hear it!!!
> > Mike Hohnstein
> > Germantown, WI
> > AutoTransDesign.com
> > 83FC35
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Juergen]

To all Birders
When I read all the posts about BB and its Repair, Costs etc, I can see a lot
of interest here.
Now, we all know that when you have an older coach, you never know what might
crop up. When any one, experienced BB Tech or just a regular Mechanic gets into
a piece of older equipment, you never know if doing this or that WILL fix the
problem. One might uncover or run into some totally different things.
Example: Taking out an inverter might uncover burnt wires or rusted areas that
might need fixing also. Therefore, nobody, even BB Techs, could not give an
accurate estimate of work to be done, because NO-ONE can see ahead of what might
come up. As MH said it, if you got it, it's your baby. So I say, you cannot
expect any tech to give you an estimate and expect that to be the final bill. It
might cost $200 bucks to fix the alternator, and if that is all that broken,
then $200 bucks it is. But what happens when the tech finds the bracket cracked?
The bolt holding it, rusted through, now the bill could jump up. Here is where
our understanding comes into play.
Anyhow, what I hated at old BB is, when they tried to Bull.. me about things
that are just plain Baloney. Just the truth please, just the facts please, know
what you are talking about.
Tranny work. Allison or ZF, each ha sits own experience. BUT, let some one at
BB know enough to steer you into the right direction. So if I am a typical
person, no mech. skills, I call BB for help on Tranny. Macy should tell me that
BB does not do Trannies, but Allison, Phone No :XXXXX or ZF at xxxp Phone: XXXXX
can fix your problem.
Engine work, same as above. Let DD or Cat do the work but tell us where and
what.
Lots of birds have still LP Hydronic heat systems. Macy should actually send
at least 1 tech to Elkhart and get trained by Mark Dexter in the system. Then at
least he could tell us what to do.
If the new BB would try and salvage all the old info and publish/ digitize it/
sell it/ make it available to all who might need it, that would be a BIG help.
And finally, when Randy would publish his book on Vintage Birds, and how to
keep them running, we would all have a base from which to work from.
My local garage here charges $60 bucks an hour, has no idea what a BB actually
is, except its big and just barely fits into the shop, and I have to supply the
parts and info on how to do it. (Changing shocks, fixing alternators, flush
cooling system etc.) How many procedures I got off this Forum and then printed
it out for the mechanic, is quite a bit.
If Macy could get all the old BB stuff together and stored, and all this forum
knowledge added to that, and realizing that fixing old things are NOT cut and
dry work, but rather an adventure, we could run these birds longer than a DC-3
(70 year old airplane).

Back in 04, at the RIV, I witnessed a case where BB was NOT able to re-place
some batteries and shock absorbers on a BIG 03 coach. The owner had to drive his
toad back home and then retrieve the coach 2 weeks later. This is what burned
Jim Magowan off with the old BB system, Being at the factory and not even a
lousy battery?
Juergen in PA
1991 WLSP36




---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Don Bradner]

On 1/6/2008 at 6:41 PM Gregory OConnor wrote:

>I dont think a shop would consider what is fair unless they are
>thinking of charging a premium. product familiarity will attract
>business and local shop rate should prove profitable.

Right. I can't imagine giving a lot of weight to asking my customers what they
think is fair when pricing my product.

Prices on goods and services that I sell are based on what they cost, plus
reasonable (to me!) expectations of profit. If the customer does not think that
is fair, they don't buy it, and I discontinue it. I do not lower the price to
match their concept of fair, because I would not remain in business that way.
There have been a few, rare, times when prices have been raised to discourage
business, when demand was outstripping our ability to supply, but in most cases
where demand rises we increase capacity to handle it.

I would not object to paying 80, 90, 100, 110, or 120 per hour if the work is
performed efficiently and completely. An example of where I do object to cost:

I once paid $90 per hour in Memphis for 12 hours of work. The first 8 hours were
by a guy who spent it all in diagnosis and came up empty. The remaining 4 were
to a different mechanic at the same facility who both diagnosed (about 15
minutes) and repaired the problem.

I paid the bill to ransom the vehicle, but was eventually reimbursed for those
first 8 hours; it took a lot of effort along the lines of what Gregory suggested
he might do in another post (web exposure involved). Yes, the facility was out
costs for that first 8 hours, but I consider that their problem because they
assigned an obviously inadequately trained/experienced individual, and did not
observe that he was over his head right away.

[Ryan Wright]

I paid $95.00 an hour to have my DeLorean worked on when I ran into
the few frustrating problems I could not get through myself. I'd
expect to pay at least that much to have my coach worked on.

-Ryan

On Jan 5, 2008 7:01 PM, Mike Hohnstein <MHOHNSTEIN@...> wrote:
>
> I think it's probably realistic to pose a question to the group as a whole.
> I think the time has come for members to step up to the plate, particularly
> the ones who feel they need a genuine service facility to fix on ALL
> Wanderlodges, and state what they view as a fair labor rate. Have at it you
> guys, what are you willing to spend, actually pull out the dusty wallet and
> drop some dinero. I'm sure 'ol Macy will be VERY interested, and such
> information could well be instrumental in justifying such a venture.
> Don't be shy, let's hear it!!!
> Mike Hohnstein
> Germantown, WI
> AutoTransDesign.com
> 83FC35

[bubblerboy64]

There are no real good short answers to these types of questions?
You know why? Each situation is entirely different. I feel that
this has to be answered in reverse. It's not up to the customer to
say what is fair, its up to the shop owner, to set what is a
reasonable return for his investment of time and material. He is
the ONLY person who knows as was mentioned about overhead expenses
etc. His obligation to the customer is to then see that the job is
well done and warranteed at a reasonable level. The customer should
expect good service, sound work and he should go to an individual who
has a good reputation for fairness and competence. The shop rate
should be posted and if the price is too much then you go down the
street and buy your beans some place else, or do it your self if you
are so learned or inclined. Some people are price shoppers, I am
looking for the best man to do the job and if that means paying more
so be it. I know that it takes a heck of a stack of money to be in
this business (any business) and price is almost never cost. Treat
your staff well and be fair with the customer. The money is not as
important as you might think. Sorry to run on. If as an owner you
are looking for numbers then call the other shops in your area and
ask them. I was told 35 years ago that two very insightful things.
If you are not getting complaints about your prices being too high
you are not charging enough. Second, the most ungrateful client you
will ever have is the one you cut the biggest break. Its oh so true
from my experience.

John Heckman
central Pa
1973 FC





>
> It's pretty simple Masterson, what are you willing to pay for a
dedicated BB tech to deal with issues particular to BB??
> I see some are getting off on tangents regarding this thread, and I
would ask those who have a point of view to save it and post what
they are willing to pay. Not interested in anecdotal comments about
RV related services. We are talking Wanderlodge exclusively here.
> My shop does such work and I'm interested in what the "community
considers fair", as I'm sure the new stewards of Wanderlodge do.
> MH
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Pete Masterson
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 11:38 AM
> Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Let's get serious
>
>
> While I certainly don't expect service to be free, a rate that is
> reasonable in relation to other heavy equipment service providers
is
> appropriate -- possibly with a modest premium for special "BB"
> knowledge/experience.
>
> I know, for example, that Camping World charges rates comparable
with
> other service providers for various basic services (oil change,
> generator service) and for installation of various components
> purchased through their stores (e.g. installing a Remco
transmission
> lube pump on my toad). Unfortunately, the level of BB knowledge
at a
> Camping World store is, essentially, non-existent (although the
> Fairfield CA CW now has a couple of technicians who've
experienced
> the joy of working on at least one 'bird).
>
> There are market realities. CCW/BBCoachworks could not reasonably
> expect to charge substantially more that the going rate to
perform
> various service tasks on vintage 'birds -- nor would BB owners be
> likely to seek out such service if reasonably priced (but perhaps
> lower knowledge-level) alternatives exist. Some premium for the
BB
> knowledge is appropriate -- but only if that actually results in
> better service or faster ability to track down certain unique to
BB
> problems. We all make judgments about the level of quality
(value)
> vs. cost.
>
> There is also a very real locality issue. Service charges vary
> significantly by region of the country. When I had a radiator
service
> (that had experience with heavy equipment) work on my coach, it's
> location in the San Francisco Bay Area came with an approximate
25%
> higher price than a similar service in central Oklahoma might
have
> charged. So, the Ft. Valley plant might be expected to have lower
> hourly shop rates than the Southern California CCW facility. That
> would simply reflect the different costs in land/rent, prevailing
> wage rates, etc. I also note that I paid about double ($350) what
> someone else claimed ($180) for a replacement motor for the
generator
> cooling fan. (I might have shopped more for the repair, but I
would
> have had a much higher hassle factor and doubtless would have had
to
> drive much further to deliver/pickup the motor -- so my
convenience
> also factored into the price I was willing to pay.)
>
> Since I'm aware of the regional cost differentials, I accept that
I'm
> going to pay more in the Bay Area on service for many things, as
well
> as for my coach. Indeed, after backing into a pole with my toad
at an
> RV park in Texas, I elected to have the damage repaired by a
small-
> town Texas body shop rather then wait until I returned to
California.
> I figure I saved about 50% on the repair cost. (The damage was
below
> my deductible, so insurance wasn't a factor.)
>
> So, your question is certainly realistic, but is far from simple
to
> answer.
>
> Pete Masterson
> '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
> aeonix1@...
> On the road at
>
> On Jan 5, 2008, at 7:01 PM, Mike Hohnstein wrote:
>
> > I think it's probably realistic to pose a question to the group
as
> > a whole. I think the time has come for members to step up to
the
> > plate, particularly the ones who feel they need a genuine
service
> > facility to fix on ALL Wanderlodges, and state what they view
as a
> > fair labor rate. Have at it you guys, what are you willing to
> > spend, actually pull out the dusty wallet and drop some dinero.
> > I'm sure 'ol Macy will be VERY interested, and such information
> > could well be instrumental in justifying such a venture.
> > Don't be shy, let's hear it!!!
> > Mike Hohnstein
> > Germantown, WI
> > AutoTransDesign.com
> > 83FC35
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Scott Forman]

My thought is this:

I have not had any trouble having the major mechanical components of
my bus(es) worked on. The DD (or Cat in my old FC), the Allison, the
Ridewell components, the air brakes-these are all common truck
components. I may be more fortunate than most, as 1) I have a good
friend who owns a shop that is a dealer for DD, Allison, Cummins,
Perkins, Yanmar, and is also a genertor shop, and 2) I live in
Memphis, distribution and logistics capital of America, which means I
have access to lots and lots of big truck service. I am yet to find
a problem I couldn't get answered.

What I would wish for from Wanderlodge would be the opportunity to
have the things that are unique to a WL evaluated/serviced/repaired.
The wiring. The house systems. Structural issues. Suggested
upgrades. Things like that. Wouldn't you relish the opportunity to
have an experienced tech who had actually put your coach together go
over it and explain what's wrong...or more importantly, what might be
wrong soon if you don't do ABC? I know I would.

I understand that I may be dreaming. But, then again, a WL is a
unique, big-ticket item, so maybe tht level of support is possible.

Scott Forman
86 PT38
Memphis

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein"
<MHOHNSTEIN@...> wrote:
>
> I think it's probably realistic to pose a question to the group as
a whole. I think the time has come for members to step up to the
plate, particularly the ones who feel they need a genuine service
facility to fix on ALL Wanderlodges, and state what they view as a
fair labor rate. Have at it you guys, what are you willing to spend,
actually pull out the dusty wallet and drop some dinero. I'm
sure 'ol Macy will be VERY interested, and such information could
well be instrumental in justifying such a venture.
> Don't be shy, let's hear it!!!
> Mike Hohnstein
> Germantown, WI
> AutoTransDesign.com
> 83FC35
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Fred Hulse]

It appears to me that the confidence and professionalism you are exposed to when
your coach (or automobile) needs service or maintenance or repair would allow
the hourly rate to be insignificant.
The point given is you will get value for your money.

Fred & Jeanne Hulse
Morristown Arizona
1997 Wanderlodge WLWB41

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Mike Hohnstein]

It would be great to get some evaluation provided by the folks who built ones
Wanderlodge. However, it's not happening with a unit produced over 20 years
ago, who the hell stays at a job that long these days?? Right Randy?? Not
counting my wife.
MH
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Forman
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 6:47 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Let's get serious


My thought is this:

I have not had any trouble having the major mechanical components of
my bus(es) worked on. The DD (or Cat in my old FC), the Allison, the
Ridewell components, the air brakes-these are all common truck
components. I may be more fortunate than most, as 1) I have a good
friend who owns a shop that is a dealer for DD, Allison, Cummins,
Perkins, Yanmar, and is also a genertor shop, and 2) I live in
Memphis, distribution and logistics capital of America, which means I
have access to lots and lots of big truck service. I am yet to find
a problem I couldn't get answered.

What I would wish for from Wanderlodge would be the opportunity to
have the things that are unique to a WL evaluated/serviced/repaired.
The wiring. The house systems. Structural issues. Suggested
upgrades. Things like that. Wouldn't you relish the opportunity to
have an experienced tech who had actually put your coach together go
over it and explain what's wrong...or more importantly, what might be
wrong soon if you don't do ABC? I know I would.

I understand that I may be dreaming. But, then again, a WL is a
unique, big-ticket item, so maybe tht level of support is possible.

Scott Forman
86 PT38
Memphis

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein"
<MHOHNSTEIN@...> wrote:
>
> I think it's probably realistic to pose a question to the group as
a whole. I think the time has come for members to step up to the
plate, particularly the ones who feel they need a genuine service
facility to fix on ALL Wanderlodges, and state what they view as a
fair labor rate. Have at it you guys, what are you willing to spend,
actually pull out the dusty wallet and drop some dinero. I'm
sure 'ol Macy will be VERY interested, and such information could
well be instrumental in justifying such a venture.
> Don't be shy, let's hear it!!!
> Mike Hohnstein
> Germantown, WI
> AutoTransDesign.com
> 83FC35
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[pattypape]

The first few and last sentences are for Mike H.

Rates at our home base in SouthEast Michigan are about 95/105 per
hour.
We visit family in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania and schedule
truck/chassis pit work at a trusted garage for about 65/75 per hour.
They will also do some RV Work.
Rates at the BB dealer in Michigan, last checked three years ago were
about 95/105. They are too far away to travel and I do not need their
help, once was enough.

Fortunately our drive train has been a solid performer.
But I would use Cat, ZF, and a Big Truck Tire Store.

And also fortunately, all the other work, With the help of these
forums, I have been able to perform myself.

Such as Fluid/filter changes, radiator rebuild, hoses,
belts, alternator/batteries etc. motorhome electrical system,
rv appliance repairs and replacement, & some upgrades.

I would suggest that one needs to be somewhat skilled at repair work
to own any motorhome, or have deep pockets or stay home.
Most of the problems are broken parts, so ya do some research, ask
questions, then ya just fix-it.

Many problems especially in a complicated BB are intermittent.
Sometimes you hear the noise, sometimes not, sometimes there are
electrical Gremlins sometimes not.
So how much does this cost to fix???, When it happens at the
most inconvenient time??? Who pays for this hourly time????

No experience will help find the hidden , bad ground, frayed wire, or
random intermttent circuit boards. Sometimes electrical/mechanical
parts are temperature, humidity, vibration sensitive. I have chased
a few electrical issues for 2 or 3 years, to find the culprit.

If you ask a mechanic to go fishing for trouble,
do not be surprised at the invoice or if the problem re-occurs.

I would also suggest owning a complete set of common mechanics tools,
& electrical testers, Then use them. Do not be afraid of taking
things apart It is already broke.
It is amazing how much one can repair. House electrical,
plumbing, and numerous mechanical problems.
Most important I try to stay within my tool box and skill level.
This means anything bigger that 3/8 drive is too big a problem for a
driveway, or campground.

With good routine maintenance and most common trouble repairs
completed between trips.
These Birds will continue to roll with quite a few problems, that are
in need of repair.

Bottom line for me: this is a hobby and a life style, No one knows
where or when a failure will occur,,, if it does I will pay any price
to get moving again.
My feeling is every time I repair or replace a part ,, I have money
in the bank for a future failure.

Lastly, for us this is great fun and recreation, When you are having
fun, you do not get money back. Golfing, fishing, Sports events, or
any other form of recreation that we enjoy costs bucks.

So, If I need help I will gladly pay the going rate for that area.
Hopefully it will be in Germantown, Wisconsin, or Archer, Florida or
Duncan, Oklahoma.


Bill 88 FC Michigan




--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein"
<MHOHNSTEIN@...> wrote:
>
> I think it's probably realistic to pose a question to the group as
a whole. I think the time has come for members to step up to the
plate, particularly the ones who feel they need a genuine service
facility to fix on ALL Wanderlodges, and state what they view as a
fair labor rate. Have at it you guys, what are you willing to spend,
actually pull out the dusty wallet and drop some dinero. I'm
sure 'ol Macy will be VERY interested, and such information could
well be instrumental in justifying such a venture.
> Don't be shy, let's hear it!!!
> Mike Hohnstein
> Germantown, WI
> AutoTransDesign.com
> 83FC35
>
>
>
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