Locking Tag Axle Tire

[randydupree]

hehheeee! whatever you say tom! randydupree93wb
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Warner
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 3:56 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Locking Tag Axle Tire


Randy unless the law of physics has changed since I retired 10 years ago a
difference in 1/4" air line lengths of a few feet will not make a
difference in the force that the brake chamber applies to the slack
adjuster.. I would suspect that if one tire is locking up then I would
suspect contaminated brake shoes on that axel or a misadjusted slack adjuster.

Tom
1982 FC35
Vernon Center,NY

At 12:02 PM 6/9/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>check to make sure that both air lines are the same length.if one has been
>replaced it may be shorter or longer.it does matter..Tom? randydupree93wb
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rex
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 11:38 AM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Locking Tag Axle Tire
>
>
> First post reading for years. Have had a tag axle, drivers side,
> that locks on hard braking. Many corrective actions taken. Started
> by replacing leaking oil seal and brakes that wheel. Adjusted slack
> adjusters myself and also local truck shop. At Bennie???
> recommendation at Bluebird hooked up guages to each line going to
> each tag axle wheel. Thought had found problem approximately 10#
> difference, BUT switched gauges and found that the guages had a 10#
> difference. Guages actually show air pressures to each side very
> close. Truck mechanic thinks it could be warped brake drum, but
> it has not been noticed when other repairs made. Before taking off
> wheel and drum again, I though that I would seek help from past
> experiences on forum.
>
> Rex Puckett
> 85PT36
>
>
>
>
>

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[erniecarpet@...]

on our way to the rally here in sanger, we saw an eagle with the tag in
front of the drivers. what age would this coach be? ernie-83pt40 in texas


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Richard Sevey & Carolyn Sevey]

-Hi All
Just a thought, on Eagle buses if the suspension system is loading
the tag axle too lightly the light wheel will lock up all the time.
Could your leveling valve be loading that wheel too lightly?
Dick & Carolyn Sevey 83fc 33 Pahrump, Nv.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tom Warner
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 3:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Locking Tag Axle Tire
>
>
> Randy unless the law of physics has changed since I retired 10
years ago a
> difference in 1/4" air line lengths of a few feet will not make
a
> difference in the force that the brake chamber applies to the
slack
> adjuster.. I would suspect that if one tire is locking up then I
would
> suspect contaminated brake shoes on that axel or a misadjusted
slack adjuster.
>
> Tom
> 1982 FC35
> Vernon Center,NY
>
> At 12:02 PM 6/9/2005 -0400, you wrote:
> >check to make sure that both air lines are the same length.if
one has been
> >replaced it may be shorter or longer.it does matter..Tom?
randydupree93wb
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Rex
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 11:38 AM
> > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Locking Tag Axle Tire
> >
> >
> > First post reading for years. Have had a tag axle, drivers
side,
> > that locks on hard braking. Many corrective actions taken.
Started
> > by replacing leaking oil seal and brakes that wheel.
Adjusted slack
> > adjusters myself and also local truck shop. At Bennie???
> > recommendation at Bluebird hooked up guages to each line
going to
> > each tag axle wheel. Thought had found problem
approximately 10#
> > difference, BUT switched gauges and found that the guages
had a 10#
> > difference. Guages actually show air pressures to each side
very
> > close. Truck mechanic thinks it could be warped brake drum,
but
> > it has not been noticed when other repairs made. Before
taking off
> > wheel and drum again, I though that I would seek help from
past
> > experiences on forum.
> >
> > Rex Puckett
> > 85PT36
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >----------------------------------------------------------------
--------------
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> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum/
> >
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> > WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[DAY8293A@...]

Say guys,,, would this be ok for you?? I can see the letters, and
still use lower case for you !!
One question,, where does the brake "air pulse" start? at the brake
pedal? Or does that control another brake control system that sends out the
compressed air? Seems the rear brakes get their air from the rear air tanks, and
the
front from the front ones. Does it go all the way to the front pedal, and
then back to the rear wheels??
I have never thought about how that works. Might be something good to
know,,, DAY JAX FLA 83 PT-40


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jeff Miller]

That's funny Randy, you knew he'd bite didn't you?

The laws of physics haven't changed Tom, you've obviously just never
understood them.

The length of air-line doesn't affect ultimate pressure, but it does
affect timing which is important in air-brake design. If one brake is
supplied pressure before another brake you can get pulling or lockup.

As far as one brake locking without the other, several factors can
cause asymmetrical braking and traction:

Check shock absorbers and suspension links, a binding or broken link
can cause asymmetrical downforce and thus traction. A pinched air-bag
supply line can cause the pressure to vary between air-bags, a
SEVERELY out-of-level condition can cause asymmetrical
pressure/traction, brake supply lines can affect braking and cause
asymmetrical brake pressure, possibly even a restriction in the tag-
axle's R-12 brake relay valve.

Mechanical brake problems can cause asymmetrical braking as one brake
might have a bad cam or rollers, contaminated brake shoes or
incorrect friction material (FF is original, softer can cause
locking), incorrectly installed (wrong angle) slack adjusters.

Coach loading shouldn't affect tag-axle braking as the tag-axle
airbags are tied together and supplied by/at the same pressure, same
pressure between airbags will mean same downforce/weight on both
sides (or very close). Coach loading affects the side-side weight of
the drive axle mostly.

If betting, I'd start with: contaminated brakes, wrong brake friction
material, incorrectly adjusted or assembled slack adjuster,
suspension problem, and move on if those are not the problems.

An air pressure gauge comparing brake application pressure between
the two sides might also be an interesting test.

- Jeff Miller


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
wrote:
> Randy unless the law of physics has changed since I retired 10
years ago a
> difference in 1/4" air line lengths of a few feet will not make a
> difference in the force that the brake chamber applies to the slack
> adjuster.. I would suspect that if one tire is locking up then I
would
> suspect contaminated brake shoes on that axel or a misadjusted
slack adjuster.
>
> Tom
> 1982 FC35
> Vernon Center,NY
>
> At 12:02 PM 6/9/2005 -0400, you wrote:
> >check to make sure that both air lines are the same length.if one
has been
> >replaced it may be shorter or longer.it does matter..Tom?
randydupree93wb

[Jeff Miller]

Although a thoughtful response, apples to oranges. Eagles don't have
airbag suspension, they are torsion bar, therefore asymmetrical tag-
axle pressures are more likely to cause this problem.

- Jeff Miller


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Sevey & Carolyn
Sevey" wrote:
> -Hi All
> Just a thought, on Eagle buses if the suspension system is loading
> the tag axle too lightly the light wheel will lock up all the time.
> Could your leveling valve be loading that wheel too lightly?
> Dick & Carolyn Sevey 83fc 33 Pahrump, Nv.

[randydupree]

its all about timing jeff! uneven length hoses can cause a brake to pull.
hydraulic brakes can have unequal length lines with no problem..but have you
ever noticed on a 3208 diesel engine the injector lines are all bent and twisted
and seem too long? they are realy equal length,all 8 lines the same,thats so the
timing is right on all cyl's..but,you know all that stuff already!
randydupree93wb
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Miller
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 9:05 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Locking Tag Axle Tire


That's funny Randy, you knew he'd bite didn't you?

The laws of physics haven't changed Tom, you've obviously just never
understood them.

The length of air-line doesn't affect ultimate pressure, but it does
affect timing which is important in air-brake design. If one brake is
supplied pressure before another brake you can get pulling or lockup.

As far as one brake locking without the other, several factors can
cause asymmetrical braking and traction:

Check shock absorbers and suspension links, a binding or broken link
can cause asymmetrical downforce and thus traction. A pinched air-bag
supply line can cause the pressure to vary between air-bags, a
SEVERELY out-of-level condition can cause asymmetrical
pressure/traction, brake supply lines can affect braking and cause
asymmetrical brake pressure, possibly even a restriction in the tag-
axle's R-12 brake relay valve.

Mechanical brake problems can cause asymmetrical braking as one brake
might have a bad cam or rollers, contaminated brake shoes or
incorrect friction material (FF is original, softer can cause
locking), incorrectly installed (wrong angle) slack adjusters.

Coach loading shouldn't affect tag-axle braking as the tag-axle
airbags are tied together and supplied by/at the same pressure, same
pressure between airbags will mean same downforce/weight on both
sides (or very close). Coach loading affects the side-side weight of
the drive axle mostly.

If betting, I'd start with: contaminated brakes, wrong brake friction
material, incorrectly adjusted or assembled slack adjuster,
suspension problem, and move on if those are not the problems.

An air pressure gauge comparing brake application pressure between
the two sides might also be an interesting test.

- Jeff Miller


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
wrote:
> Randy unless the law of physics has changed since I retired 10
years ago a
> difference in 1/4" air line lengths of a few feet will not make a
> difference in the force that the brake chamber applies to the slack
> adjuster.. I would suspect that if one tire is locking up then I
would
> suspect contaminated brake shoes on that axel or a misadjusted
slack adjuster.
>
> Tom
> 1982 FC35
> Vernon Center,NY
>
> At 12:02 PM 6/9/2005 -0400, you wrote:
> >check to make sure that both air lines are the same length.if one
has been
> >replaced it may be shorter or longer.it does matter..Tom?
randydupree93wb





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[randydupree]

and another bit of trivia for you.a extra axle behind the drive axle is a tag
axle,when the extra axle is in front of the drive axle its called a boogie
axle.only the very newest eagles have a tag axle,and i think they went to air
ride also,at the very end of production..randydupree93wb
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Miller
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 9:16 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Locking Tag Axle Tire


Although a thoughtful response, apples to oranges. Eagles don't have
airbag suspension, they are torsion bar, therefore asymmetrical tag-
axle pressures are more likely to cause this problem.

- Jeff Miller


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Sevey & Carolyn
Sevey" wrote:
> -Hi All
> Just a thought, on Eagle buses if the suspension system is loading
> the tag axle too lightly the light wheel will lock up all the time.
> Could your leveling valve be loading that wheel too lightly?
> Dick & Carolyn Sevey 83fc 33 Pahrump, Nv.




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jeff Miller]

Yeah port-effect on the 3208 sure leads to equal-length fuel lines.

Do you think that common-rail injection makes it a bit simpler?

- Jeff Miller


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, randydupree wrote:
> its all about timing jeff! uneven length hoses can cause a brake to
pull. hydraulic brakes can have unequal length lines with no
problem..but have you ever noticed on a 3208 diesel engine the
injector lines are all bent and twisted and seem too long? they are
realy equal length,all 8 lines the same,thats so the timing is right on
all cyl's..but,you know all that stuff already! randydupree93wb

[Jeff Miller]

Telling the Eagle 10 from the Eagle 15 made easy eh Randy? The bogie
wheels in front of the drive look so , ... different? I was always
amused by the 96" front cap on the 102" wide Eagle 10 also.

Still, a really nice-riding bus, if you can find one that isn't rusty
and source the parts (after Eagle went "out of business" twice, ...).

- Jeff Miller


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, randydupree
wrote:
> and another bit of trivia for you.a extra axle behind the drive
axle is a tag axle,when the extra axle is in front of the drive axle
its called a boogie axle.only the very newest eagles have a tag
axle,and i think they went to air ride also,at the very end of
production..randydupree93wb
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jeff Miller
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 9:16 PM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Locking Tag Axle Tire
>
>
> Although a thoughtful response, apples to oranges. Eagles don't
have
> airbag suspension, they are torsion bar, therefore asymmetrical
tag-
> axle pressures are more likely to cause this problem.
>
> - Jeff Miller
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Sevey & Carolyn
> Sevey" wrote:
> > -Hi All
> > Just a thought, on Eagle buses if the suspension system is
loading
> > the tag axle too lightly the light wheel will lock up all the
time.
> > Could your leveling valve be loading that wheel too lightly?
> > Dick & Carolyn Sevey 83fc 33 Pahrump, Nv.
>
>
>
>
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