Broken valves and broken dreams

[davidkerryedwards]

The 1982 Bluebird manual for the 3208 NA says keep rpm's between 2240
and 2800 and not to let the engine lug below 2000rpm's for more than a
few seconds.

Kerry

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "davidkerryedwards"
wrote:
>
> The CAT operators manual for my coach says nothing about optimal rpm.
> It says do not run it above the rated rpm on the engine plate
> (2800rpm for a 210hp na). It says it can be run at full load between
> the rated rpm and 1900rpm (for NA) It does say DO NOT run it at full
> load under 1900rpm (for short periods, down to 1400 rpm's) for an NA
> or not below 1400rpm for a turbo. If they thought there was an
> optimal rpm, why not include it within all those limits?
>
> Kerry
> 82 FC 35
> Denver
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Mr Chris Valdes
> wrote:
> >
> > I have a 78 FC 33 with a non turbo 3208. My mechanic
> > says to keep it under 2500 however that is also around
> > 55-60. I have others tell me that work on Cats that
> > those motors love to rev....
> > i am also confused???
> >
> > Help
> > Chris
> >
>

[Gregory OConnor]

Yo Karry, welcome to the 'World of Wanderlodge'. MH remembers

Greg
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "davidkerryedwards"
wrote:
>
> I asked a simple question. I said nothing about how I would run my
> vehicle. Do you know why CAT did not put optimal rpm's in their
manual?
> I don't see what any of this has to do with who drives my vehicles.
>
> Kerry
> 82 FC 35
> Denver
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein"
> <MHOHNSTEIN@> wrote:
> >
> > Yo, Kerry, you have a rig that's 24 freekin' years old, you want
to
> run that tired old tank at 100%, be my guest.
> > You and Jon should talk to Ralph F about the way things are. He
> could bring some interesting tidbits to your attention. I have
turned
> wrenches professionally for 30 years and I can deal with Cat
mechanics
> as equals. Most of the people in vehicle service in the Milwaukee
> metro area know who I am. That said, I have NEVER talked to a
> competent Cat man who thinks it's OK to run a 'throwaway' against
the
> governor. You guys who know better have at it. Hope it don't blow
up
> when you loan it out to some "tourist".
> > MH

[erniecarpet@...]

I believe if you let any diesel lug, you are giving it a death sentence. Ernie
83pt40 in Texas

-----Original Message-----
From: davidkerryedwards
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 05:48:03 -0000
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Broken valves and broken dreams


The 1982 Bluebird manual for the 3208 NA says keep rpm's between 2240
and 2800 and not to let the engine lug below 2000rpm's for more than a
few seconds.

Kerry

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "davidkerryedwards"
wrote:
>
> The CAT operators manual for my coach says nothing about optimal rpm.
> It says do not run it above the rated rpm on the engine plate
> (2800rpm for a 210hp na). It says it can be run at full load between
> the rated rpm and 1900rpm (for NA) It does say DO NOT run it at full
> load under 1900rpm (for short periods, down to 1400 rpm's) for an NA
> or not below 1400rpm for a turbo. If they thought there was an
> optimal rpm, why not include it within all those limits?
>
> Kerry
> 82 FC 35
> Denver
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Mr Chris Valdes
> wrote:
> >
> > I have a 78 FC 33 with a non turbo 3208. My mechanic
> > says to keep it under 2500 however that is also around
> > 55-60. I have others tell me that work on Cats that
> > those motors love to rev....
> > i am also confused???
> >
> > Help
> > Chris
> >
>







Yahoo! Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[putneyflash]

For whats it's worth, i took this out of a cat publication dated
01/07/1990 and updated 11/10/2001

Turbocharged engines may be operated at full load, at any rpm
between rated engine speed and 1400 rpm

NA engines rated at or above 175 hpcan be operated at at full load
down to 1900 rpm and may be operated at short periods at full load
down to 1400 rpm. operation at full load below 1400 rpm is not
recommened.

NA engine below 175 hp can be operated at at full load down to 1400
rpm and may be operated for short periods at full load down to 1000
rpm. operation at full load below 1000 rpm is nor recommended.

on upgrades begin downshfting when the engine rpm starts to approach
full torque (1400 rpm) fuel economy will be best if you let the
engine lug back to around the this speed before you down shift.
down shift until a gear is reaced that will pull the load.

extended operation in a lug conditionwill raise exhaust temperature
and cylinder pressure. this can reduce engine life.

re



---







In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein"
<MHOHNSTEIN@...> wrote:
>
> Hmm, 2200 is 55 in your "vehicle", sounds like "around" 2 grand to
me. Mebbe you need a hobby?
> MH
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jon
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 6:32 PM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Broken valves and broken dreams
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein"
> <MHOHNSTEIN@> wrote:
> >
> > It should be noted that BlueBird recommended and I quote; Keep
it
> around 2000 rpm. The recommendation is for the 3208. Cat calls
2400
> rpm in marine applications, "continuous cruise speed".
> > Some people think it's wise to check valve adjustment every
50k
> miles, some think that's too much. I check it more often as I
fear
> broken parts and I DO NOT EVER take short cuts with my vehicles
of
> any kind.
> > However, ignorance is bliss for most folks and occasionally
the
> bite in the butt from reality hurts.
> > Weak valve springs is the most common cause of valve failure,
> springs can lose tension in storage. At rest, some valves are
open at
> max lift and some are closed. Those that are open can take a
set and
> lose closing strength, this allows the valve to bounce in
operation,
> compound the problem by running 2700/2800 rpm and some times
stuff
> breaks.
> > Watch that valve lash and check the valve spring tension
regularly,
> other wise, keep your fingers crossed. Ain't diesels fun?
> > Mike Hohnstein
> > Germantown, WI
> > 83FC35
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Just one nagging question and that concerns the chart on the
Vintage
> Bird site! it states that at 2000 RPM' at 3208 n/a engine in a
F/C
> unit speed will be 48 MPH. Now lets get real about keeping it at
2000
> RPM's and going down a freeway. Do you think when these coaches
came
> out that the Bluebird Corporation stated in there factory
manuals
> that there motor coaches would last allot longer if they were
only
> driven under 50 MPH? I might be different than most drivers but
I try
> to keep my speed at 55 but not 48 mph on the freeway. Does
anyone
> have a drivers manual for one of these old units? it would be
> interesting to check it out and see what corp. said in those
days.
>
>
> Jon
> 1978 Wanderlodge
> Bremerton Washington
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS Recreational vehicles Wanderlodge Automotive
maintenance
> Recreational vehicle dealer Used recreational vehicles
Automotive radiators
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> a.. Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum" on the web.
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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of Service.
>
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>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Mike Hohnstein]

That is good information, however operating at the rpm limit will cause
premature engine failure as compared to more reasonable engine speed. Most
owners will not adhere to the frequency of PM requirements and that's not wise
either.
MH
----- Original Message -----
From: putneyflash
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 8:49 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Broken valves and broken dreams


For whats it's worth, i took this out of a cat publication dated
01/07/1990 and updated 11/10/2001

Turbocharged engines may be operated at full load, at any rpm
between rated engine speed and 1400 rpm

NA engines rated at or above 175 hpcan be operated at at full load
down to 1900 rpm and may be operated at short periods at full load
down to 1400 rpm. operation at full load below 1400 rpm is not
recommened.

NA engine below 175 hp can be operated at at full load down to 1400
rpm and may be operated for short periods at full load down to 1000
rpm. operation at full load below 1000 rpm is nor recommended.

on upgrades begin downshfting when the engine rpm starts to approach
full torque (1400 rpm) fuel economy will be best if you let the
engine lug back to around the this speed before you down shift.
down shift until a gear is reaced that will pull the load.

extended operation in a lug conditionwill raise exhaust temperature
and cylinder pressure. this can reduce engine life.

re



---







In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein"
<MHOHNSTEIN@...> wrote:
>
> Hmm, 2200 is 55 in your "vehicle", sounds like "around" 2 grand to
me. Mebbe you need a hobby?
> MH
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jon
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 6:32 PM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Broken valves and broken dreams
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein"
> <MHOHNSTEIN@> wrote:
> >
> > It should be noted that BlueBird recommended and I quote; Keep
it
> around 2000 rpm. The recommendation is for the 3208. Cat calls
2400
> rpm in marine applications, "continuous cruise speed".
> > Some people think it's wise to check valve adjustment every
50k
> miles, some think that's too much. I check it more often as I
fear
> broken parts and I DO NOT EVER take short cuts with my vehicles
of
> any kind.
> > However, ignorance is bliss for most folks and occasionally
the
> bite in the butt from reality hurts.
> > Weak valve springs is the most common cause of valve failure,
> springs can lose tension in storage. At rest, some valves are
open at
> max lift and some are closed. Those that are open can take a
set and
> lose closing strength, this allows the valve to bounce in
operation,
> compound the problem by running 2700/2800 rpm and some times
stuff
> breaks.
> > Watch that valve lash and check the valve spring tension
regularly,
> other wise, keep your fingers crossed. Ain't diesels fun?
> > Mike Hohnstein
> > Germantown, WI
> > 83FC35
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Just one nagging question and that concerns the chart on the
Vintage
> Bird site! it states that at 2000 RPM' at 3208 n/a engine in a
F/C
> unit speed will be 48 MPH. Now lets get real about keeping it at
2000
> RPM's and going down a freeway. Do you think when these coaches
came
> out that the Bluebird Corporation stated in there factory
manuals
> that there motor coaches would last allot longer if they were
only
> driven under 50 MPH? I might be different than most drivers but
I try
> to keep my speed at 55 but not 48 mph on the freeway. Does
anyone
> have a drivers manual for one of these old units? it would be
> interesting to check it out and see what corp. said in those
days.
>
>
> Jon
> 1978 Wanderlodge
> Bremerton Washington
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS Recreational vehicles Wanderlodge Automotive
maintenance
> Recreational vehicle dealer Used recreational vehicles
Automotive radiators
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> a.. Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum" on the web.
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of Service.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>






SPONSORED LINKS Recreational vehicles Wanderlodge Automotive maintenance
Recreational vehicle dealer Used recreational vehicles Automotive
radiators


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Hugh Turner]

Ernie
There is an execption to that now. I am not sure if any MH are set up
with it. With a class 8 tractor with a seris 60 with Allison super 10
auto shift 9/10 you have to let lug some for transmission to have the
right pull .
Hugh

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, erniecarpet@... wrote:
>
> I believe if you let any diesel lug, you are giving it a death
sentence. Ernie 83pt40 in Texas
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: davidkerryedwards
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 05:48:03 -0000
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Broken valves and broken dreams
>
>
> The 1982 Bluebird manual for the 3208 NA says keep rpm's between 2240
> and 2800 and not to let the engine lug below 2000rpm's for more than a
> few seconds.
>
> Kerry
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "davidkerryedwards"
> wrote:
> >
> > The CAT operators manual for my coach says nothing about optimal rpm.
> > It says do not run it above the rated rpm on the engine plate
> > (2800rpm for a 210hp na). It says it can be run at full load between
> > the rated rpm and 1900rpm (for NA) It does say DO NOT run it at full
> > load under 1900rpm (for short periods, down to 1400 rpm's) for an NA
> > or not below 1400rpm for a turbo. If they thought there was an
> > optimal rpm, why not include it within all those limits?
> >
> > Kerry
> > 82 FC 35
> > Denver
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Mr Chris Valdes
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I have a 78 FC 33 with a non turbo 3208. My mechanic
> > > says to keep it under 2500 however that is also around
> > > 55-60. I have others tell me that work on Cats that
> > > those motors love to rev....
> > > i am also confused???
> > >
> > > Help
> > > Chris
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Stephen Birtles]

newell has the eaton autoshift 10
Stephen 77fc35

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Hugh Turner"
wrote:
>
> Ernie
> There is an execption to that now. I am not sure if any MH are set up
> with it. With a class 8 tractor with a seris 60 with Allison super 10
> auto shift 9/10 you have to let lug some for transmission to have the
> right pull .
> Hugh
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, erniecarpet@ wrote:
> >
> > I believe if you let any diesel lug, you are giving it a death
> sentence. Ernie 83pt40 in Texas
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: davidkerryedwards
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 05:48:03 -0000
> > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Broken valves and broken dreams
> >
> >
> > The 1982 Bluebird manual for the 3208 NA says keep rpm's between 2240
> > and 2800 and not to let the engine lug below 2000rpm's for more than a
> > few seconds.
> >
> > Kerry
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "davidkerryedwards"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > The CAT operators manual for my coach says nothing about optimal
rpm.
> > > It says do not run it above the rated rpm on the engine plate
> > > (2800rpm for a 210hp na). It says it can be run at full load between
> > > the rated rpm and 1900rpm (for NA) It does say DO NOT run it at full
> > > load under 1900rpm (for short periods, down to 1400 rpm's) for an NA
> > > or not below 1400rpm for a turbo. If they thought there was an
> > > optimal rpm, why not include it within all those limits?
> > >
> > > Kerry
> > > 82 FC 35
> > > Denver
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Mr Chris Valdes
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I have a 78 FC 33 with a non turbo 3208. My mechanic
> > > > says to keep it under 2500 however that is also around
> > > > 55-60. I have others tell me that work on Cats that
> > > > those motors love to rev....
> > > > i am also confused???
> > > >
> > > > Help
> > > > Chris
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

[George Witt]

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Mr Chris Valdes
wrote:
>
Chris,
I have an 81 3208na with 180,000 miles on it. I've tried a lot
of different speeds and it seems the Cat really likes 2350 to 2450
rpms. It gets the best fuel mileage there (about 8 mpg) and uses the
least amount of oil. That's about half throttle on the accelerator.
I never lug it below 2,000 rpm, I downshift. The Cat manual
defines "lugging" as more than half throttle applied and the vehicle
isn't gaining speed or is losing it. It's fine to run it under 2,000
on a very light throttle.
In fact, I can change the oil and it's clear on the dipstick like
a gas engine. If I keep the rpms around that point, it stays
reasonably clear for almost 800 miles.
I've got a set of 5.29 gears in mine and at 2350 rpm the speedo
says 52 mph, but my GPS system shows speed is really about 56 mph.
I've found an air filter only lasts about 6,000 miles and that's
as far as I go on the Racor filter, too.
I change engine oil and filters at 2,000 to 3,000 miles,
depending on the length of the trip. My engine only holds 14 quarts
with filters, so I don't have much capacity. I've been told the 3208
really likes clean oil and so do I.
I hope this helps you out. For perspective, I'm a career auto
mechanic, ASE Certified Master and own a car repair shop.

George Witt
81 FC 35
Lincoln, Nebraska




> I have a 78 FC 33 with a non turbo 3208. My mechanic
> says to keep it under 2500 however that is also around
> 55-60. I have others tell me that work on Cats that
> those motors love to rev....
> i am also confused???
>
> Help
> Chris
> 78 FC 33 Palmdale, ca "Seguro"
>
> --- Mike Hohnstein <MHOHNSTEIN@...> wrote:
>
> > Hmm, 2200 is 55 in your "vehicle", sounds like
> > "around" 2 grand to me. Mebbe you need a hobby?
> > MH
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Jon
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 6:32 PM
> > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Broken valves and
> > broken dreams
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike
> > Hohnstein"
> > <MHOHNSTEIN@> wrote:
> > >
> > > It should be noted that BlueBird recommended and
> > I quote; Keep it
> > around 2000 rpm. The recommendation is for the
> > 3208. Cat calls 2400
> > rpm in marine applications, "continuous cruise
> > speed".
> > > Some people think it's wise to check valve
> > adjustment every 50k
> > miles, some think that's too much. I check it
> > more often as I fear
> > broken parts and I DO NOT EVER take short cuts
> > with my vehicles of
> > any kind.
> > > However, ignorance is bliss for most folks and
> > occasionally the
> > bite in the butt from reality hurts.
> > > Weak valve springs is the most common cause of
> > valve failure,
> > springs can lose tension in storage. At rest, some
> > valves are open at
> > max lift and some are closed. Those that are open
> > can take a set and
> > lose closing strength, this allows the valve to
> > bounce in operation,
> > compound the problem by running 2700/2800 rpm and
> > some times stuff
> > breaks.
> > > Watch that valve lash and check the valve spring
> > tension regularly,
> > other wise, keep your fingers crossed. Ain't
> > diesels fun?
> > > Mike Hohnstein
> > > Germantown, WI
> > > 83FC35
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> >
> >
> > Just one nagging question and that concerns the
> > chart on the Vintage
> > Bird site! it states that at 2000 RPM' at 3208 n/a
> > engine in a F/C
> > unit speed will be 48 MPH. Now lets get real about
> > keeping it at 2000
> > RPM's and going down a freeway. Do you think when
> > these coaches came
> > out that the Bluebird Corporation stated in there
> > factory manuals
> > that there motor coaches would last allot longer
> > if they were only
> > driven under 50 MPH? I might be different than
> > most drivers but I try
> > to keep my speed at 55 but not 48 mph on the
> > freeway. Does anyone
> > have a drivers manual for one of these old units?
> > it would be
> > interesting to check it out and see what corp.
> > said in those days.
> >
> >
> > Jon
> > 1978 Wanderlodge
> > Bremerton Washington
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS Recreational vehicles Wanderlodge
> > Automotive maintenance
> > Recreational vehicle dealer Used
> > recreational vehicles Automotive radiators
> >
> >
> >
>
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> >
> > a.. Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum" on the
> > web.
> >
> > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an
> > email to:
> > WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> >
>
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> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> >
> >
>
>
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[john duke]

Hi George
Just read your rpm/oil/etc. I like your observstions and agree with all your
ways. I forgot whether it was you that mentioned going up hillin a bird.
So...what do you do when you reach a sign that says 6-7% next 8 miles? (I know
that these signs usually indicate downhill, but you want to go the opposite
way, in this case uphill) , how would you tackle this grade?
my Bird is a 36 SP 300 cat 5 speed ZF tranny, turbo -aftercooled (6.9mpg avg,
8.4mpg with tailwind of 20kts)
Juergen in PA
1991 WLSP36



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[George Witt]

Hey, Juergen,
Nice to hear from you.
The way I approach short grades is to get the engine up to 2600
going into it, to carry as much momentum as I can, then wing it from
there. ;o)
On a long, steep grade, I'll just keep downshifting until I find
a gear that I can pull with 1/2 to 3/4 throttle pressure. Going
through Laughlin, Nevada to cross the Colorado River on the way to Las
Vegas, I used 2nd gear and it worked well with half throttle most of
the time. I can remember in some other places having to go to first
in my travels.
I've never seen the sense in thrashing an engine to the max for a
long length of time. They're designed to take it for short periods,
but I don't want to push it. It's better to get the gearing in a
position where the engine can just cruise with the load. As long as
the engine is in cruise mode or just a hair stronger, it's gonna have
a long life.
I use the same gear going down the other side that I used to get
up. I'll apply the brakes firmly to sharply cut 5 or 10 mph speed and
then get off them so they can cool. Staying lightly on the brakes all
the way down will overheat them and cause a fire or blow a tire, so
brake in cycles.

George Witt
81 FC 35
Lincoln, Nebraska



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, john duke
wrote:
>
> Hi George
> Just read your rpm/oil/etc. I like your observstions and agree
with all your ways. I forgot whether it was you that mentioned going
up hillin a bird. So...what do you do when you reach a sign that says
6-7% next 8 miles? (I know that these signs usually indicate
downhill, but you want to go the opposite way, in this case uphill) ,
how would you tackle this grade?
> my Bird is a 36 SP 300 cat 5 speed ZF tranny, turbo -aftercooled
(6.9mpg avg, 8.4mpg with tailwind of 20kts)
> Juergen in PA
> 1991 WLSP36
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Mail
> Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>