Should we even be looking at Old Birds?

[bubblerboy64]

Just to agree with Leroy. When looking at coaches last year I did
see several which would have needed tires, batteries and a paint job.
I did not even make an offer on something in that class. It only
insults the seller and gets you no where. I remember one which was
for sale buy a nice older gentleman who hated to sell his coach. He
was asking $13,000. The tires, well, I wouldn't have driven around
the block on them. The paint was ruff and the rest of the coach was
average. Who knows what the coach was like underneath. I really
don't think I would have taken it if he would have given it to me,
but he did eventually sell it. For what I have no clue. You will be
able to find a decent FC for $25K and you should be able to find a
real gem for $30k (in my opinion) remember they are only worth what
the seller and buyer agree on.
John Heckman
central Pa
1973 FC
>
> Leroy, I think your on the right path. Certainly there are
coaches
> out there that meet your "wish list". Keep in mind that you are a
lot
> better buying a "good" one and spending a little more up front then
> buying one that needs a lot of work. Look for one that was driven
> and maintained and that shows that it was obviously loved. Keep in
> mind that you will spend additional money on the coach to make it
> yours. I paid just under 20K for my 1973 and I have added at least
> another 10K to that. I have none a fair amount that didn't have to
> be done but what I wanted to do to make it the way I wanted it.
That
> is my personality. Try to buy one with recent tires and batteries
or
> factor that into the negotiation. Old tires (ten years max) are
not
> to be trusted even if the tread is new. It takes big bucks to
paint
> a BB so if the paint is not good and that bothers you consider
that.
> So good luck and let us know what you are looking at and we will no
> doubt give our opinions.
> John Heckman
> central Pa
> 1973 FC
> > Wow tons of great feedback and fast! This forum definately seems
> > very helpful, and really helps me feel more comfortable about
> making
> > a step toward an older coach, and knowing i have a team to help
me
> > figure things out.
> >
> > I think that I'd be better at actually doing the
> repairs/maintenance
> > than troubleshooting problems at least on the mechancial stuff,
> until
> > I got to know things a bit more.
> >
> > A bit more background on us. We're late 20s, early 30s, with 2
> girls
> > under 3 years old. We currently travel about 1 big trip a year
and
> 2-
> > 4 more smaller weekend trips. We expect that will increase again
> as
> > the girls get older (read out of diapers and crib).
> >
> > I work in IT with computers for a living, and have done nearly
> every
> > type of work around the house and my RV, with only limited
> mechanical
> > work.
> >
> > I think we'd like an 83 or 84 FC based on all i read. They have
> the
> > power of the Turbo, and also air suspension, but still aren't too
> > pricey. We want the diesel engine and the diesel generator. We
> want
> > the one with twin couches up front, and a double bed in the back.
> >
> > I dont have an exact budget at the moment. Obviously the less I
> > could spend the better, but I want the most reliable coach I can
> get
> > too. I would like to spend near $20K.
> >
> > Thanks for all the great feedback. I had heard a lot of good
stuff
> > about this place from the RV.NET group, and it definately seems
> like
> > you've got a great group.
> >
> >
> > We actually went and checked out an 83 this weekend. Floor plan
> was
> > cool, perfect. But it left me with a lot of questions. Here's
an
> > excerpt from what I wrote on RV.NEt about it.
> >
> > "Late last night I found a deal on an old 1983 Wanderlodge an
hour
> or
> > so south of me. We've been thinking for a few years that it would
> be
> > very nice to have an old Bird. This deal seemed too good to be
> true,
> > $12,000. I'd never personally been inside a vintage bird, so i
> > figured now is a good time to go see if they'd really be a good
fit
> > for us. The seller was selling on behalf of his brother and
didn't
> > know much about it.
> >
> > Engine started right up, but the smell of diesel was extremely
> strong
> > outside the front end, passenger side. Is that normal?
> >
> > The diesel genset didn't want to start up, he thought it was fed
by
> a
> > separate tank, but I dont think that is the case.
> >
> > Outside was rough, definately needed a new coat of paint. Inside
> was
> > decent. Was nice being in an older unit with not a signle sign of
a
> > leak. Much of the uppolstry needed to be replaced, couchs,
chairs,
> > dinnettes. And the carpet was ugh-riginal.
> >
> > 12V electrical system was great for lights, but nearly everything
> on
> > the dash was dead. Gauges seemed to work, but switches were all
> > useless. A/C, Heat etc didnt work.
> >
> > As for the 110V stuff, I couldn't test with no genset and no
shore
> > power.
> >
> > Awnings needed some help, but I was about done by the time I got
to
> > them, that I didn't even check them out.
> >
> > Man, this thing could be nice to someone who wants to put a bit
of
> > time into it, just not sure I'm really up to it at this point in
> the
> > game.
> >
> > Question is, should I lowball this guy? And see if I can get it
at
> a
> > price where I could pay someone else to fix the broken "stuff"?
Any
> > factor sound like sign of something much worse?
> > "
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jack & Donna Smith"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Old Bird or Newer?? Well, as some say, "You Pays Your Money,
and
> > > Takes Your Choice"...
> > > Our 1973 Bird lacks some of the items that are standard on
Newer
> > > coaches, but also lack some of the headaches..What is
a "Sporlian
> > > Valve", anyway, or "Air Operated Sreps"?
> > > As my old pappy said, "What ain't there, cant break".
> > > Some costs are less, such as my yearly DMV fee of $67,(even
here
> in
> > > the Land of Arnold), and lower Insurance costs, and it afforded
> me
> > > my unique method of financing, One Payment & walk away with the
> > Pink
> > > Slip..
> > > But make no mistake, repairs may be necessary, and as Jeff
Miller
> > > said, "Pay Now, oor Pay Later".
> > > The old coaches are much simpler and therefore easier (read
> Cheaper)
> > > to maintain.
> > > The great thing about Bluebirds is that they practically never
> wear
> > > out. A lot of the original items on our coach are still
working,
> > > while I imagine my old "Sticks & Staples Tioga is probably in
> that
> > > Big KOA in the Sky...
> > > We also like to visit the various RV dealers and look over the
> > > current crop.. It is real interesting to see the look on the
> > > salesmans face when he asks us if we have an RV and we
> reply, "Yes,
> > > a Bluebird". We are usually left alone after that......
> > > Jack Smith
> > > 1973FC31
> > > SoCal
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <mike.putz@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I also agree with everything I've read here. I own a 63
> Bluebird
> > > > conversion and just recently purchased a 78FC35. I choose
this
> > > bus
> > > > to upgrade to a diesel, leveling jacks, bigger generator,
> etc..
> > I
> > > > did not want air bags as I like to go off road often with a
> > > trailer
> > > > full of quads and dirt bikes. I wanted something tough with
> > > ground
> > > > clearance. I had the pleasure of driving my friends 90SP36
> from
> > > > Texas to Arizona not long ago. It was very nice, plush,
fancy,
> > > and
> > > > strong with the 300 HP Cat. However, it was just not for
me.
> So
> > > old
> > > > or new.. you can't go wrong with these busses. I'm a "bang-
for-
> > > buck"
> > > > kind of guy on a small budget so the FC's were perfect!
> > > > Just another 2 cents...
> > > >
> > > > Michael
> > > > 78FC35 "Putz'n Around"
> > > > Mesa, Az
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bubblerboy64"
>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Leroy, I think everything that has been said is on target.
> You
> > > > > certainly want the best that you can buy. No doubt the
later
> > > FC's
> > > > > are considerably improved and being newer should in theory
at
> > > least
> > > > > be in better condition. That being said there is always the
> > > debate
> > > > as
> > > > > to how much a guy should spend on an FC before he considers
a
> > > PT. I
> > > > > have never ridden in or experienced a late model FC but my
> > > thoughts
> > > > > are if I was going to spend upwards of 50K would I add to
it
> a
> > > > little
> > > > > (or a lot) and go with a PT. These are things you have to
> > > decide.
> > > > I
> > > > > was there a year ago and I am certain all of us would agree
> > that
> > > > you
> > > > > should invest in some travel and time to investigate a
number
> > of
> > > > > these coaches before you buy. I think personal preference
> and
> > > how
> > > > > you are going to use the coach are the critical things to
> > > > consider.
> > > > > I love my old 1973 but if I was intending to make a lot of
> long
> > > > runs
> > > > > I would consider moving up. My coach is also smallish for
> more
> > > then
> > > > > two. I consider it like buying any vehicle you want to
match
> it
> > > to
> > > > > your use as well as your pocket book.
> > > > > John Heckman
> > > > > central Pa
> > > > > 1973 FC
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In
WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "michaelhohnstein"
> > > > > > <MHOHNSTEIN@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "campingleroy"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have experience with quite a few mid 80s Birds,
buying
> > > > selling
> > > > > > > and "fixing on." My 83 rear bath suits the wife and I
> real
> > > > well
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > I wouldn't trade it for a triple slide anything. Not
> even
> > a
> > > > > Newell.
> > > > > > > That being said, I recommend 87 and newer FCs for those
> who
> > > > wish
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > get into a vintage Bird. The engine and accessories are
> > much
> > > > > easier
> > > > > > > to maintain due to improved design engine cover and
swing
> > > > > radiator.
> > > > > > > 86 and older are a pain to adjust valves on, and that's
> not
> > > > good.
> > > > > > > Moreover the 87 up has a charge air cooler and 300 hp.,
a
> > > very
> > > > > > > welcome feature when trying to get down the road. The
ZF
> > > trans
> > > > > is
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > great piece and features OD.
> > > > > > > My 83 has been upgraded to 87 specs. Fiberglass engine
> > > cover,
> > > > > > > charge air cooler and inlet air enhancements. The
> Allison
> > > is
> > > > > > backed
> > > > > > > by a drive line OD transmission in front of the Jake
> > > retarder.
> > > > > > > I was able to do all this 'stuff' to my Bird due the
line
> > of
> > > > work
> > > > > > > I'm in. Much easier to just pay a little more and get
> the
> > > > newer
> > > > > > > version, and it's all done for you.
> > > > > > > MH
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > My wife and I really like a lot of things about
vintage
> > > > birds,
> > > > > > > > including the safety, reliability, and durability. I
> > > think a
> > > > > mid
> > > > > > > 80s
> > > > > > > > FC would be about the best fit for us and our
budget.
> > The
> > > > one
> > > > > > > with a
> > > > > > > > double bed in the back, and 2 couches up front.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I dont mind tinkering and working on a lot of
> projects.
> > > Our
> > > > > > > current
> > > > > > > > coach is a 1989 Class C, I had to rebuild the entire
> cab
> > > over
> > > > > on
> > > > > > > that.
> > > > > > > > But I'm by no means a mechanic. I do consider myself
> to
> > > be
> > > > > very
> > > > > > > > mechanically inclined though. I can follow
directions
> > > really
> > > > > > > well, if
> > > > > > > > there are procedures on doing projects though. And
> based
> > > on
> > > > > what
> > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > know or believe things to cost, I can't afford to
have
> a
> > > > > mechanic
> > > > > > > do
> > > > > > > > every bit of maintenance these things need. The
> > > electrical
> > > > > > > problems
> > > > > > > > concern me much less than mechanical ones.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > My question is, should I steer away from these old
> > birds?
> > > Is
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > majority of the work something that an average person
> > > could
> > > > do
> > > > > > > given
> > > > > > > > patience and research/reading? Don't want to get
> myself
> > > in
> > > > > over
> > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > head.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I would DEFINATELY want to hire someone to look at a
> unit
> > > > > before
> > > > > > > > purchasing, to make sure I understood what I was
> getting
> > > > myself
> > > > > > > into.
> > > > > > > > If I get to that point, I'll be asking here for
> > > > recommendations
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > > who.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would just say this and that is buy from a person who
> loves
> > > his
> > > > > old
> > > > > > coach! Pay a little bit more but then most of the work
has
> > > been
> > > > > done.
> > > > > > As far as Vlv adjustment that only happens every 50,000
> miles
> > > and
> > > > > my
> > > > > > coach has only had that done two times. Yep and beside my
> old
> > > > coach
> > > > > > gets 10 mpg (1978) and the newer ones well we all know
they
> > > were
> > > > > made
> > > > > > for cheap fuel prices in mind. Jon
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>