Members helping members

[Gregory OConnor]

I guess I look at things different, being self employed and one job
away from being 'layed-off'. A big sell point for me with dropping
over 100G's on an old bus was the total cost is less than the first
year depreciation on a new higher end fleetwood. I do believe that
if a seller has confident claims about the condition of his product,
he should offer a 'Second $5,000.00 warranty' (seller pays second
5G's of a repair within the first year or buyback). There is no
mystery as to why rigs dont sell. Too many sellers view the Market
value as an average of all the Asking Prices. Too many sellers want
to recover cost of maintenance and upkeep and never deduct utility
and use. (Upgrade is a Date sensitive term for upkeep)

Members are also buyers

Gregory O'Connor
94PtRomolandCa

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Lawrence"
wrote:
>
> Financed mine with our Credit Union...no problem.
> Bob Lawrence
> 84 PT36
> Tacoma, Wa
> >
> > Yeah, makes it hard to sell when the banks don't have a book that
> goes back beyond 1990.
> > MH
> > From: Harvey Lawrence
> > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 6:57 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Members helping members
>
> > > Ernie , do you know of any sources of financing an older Blue
> > bird. A potential buyer of my 84 has that problem.
> > > Harvey Lawrence 84 pt 40
>

[Mike Hohnstein]

Great points O'Conner. Another issue is too many obsess on the word HOME and
forget about MOTOR. In other words, many tend to over look the fact that it is
a motor vehicle, not something you can gain equity with.
Goof ball sales personnel will try to plant the equity mind set in the dazzled
consumer. I'm amazed at the number of people who fall for that fairytale.
MH
----- Original Message -----
From: Gregory OConnor
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 7:08 AM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Members helping members


I guess I look at things different, being self employed and one job
away from being 'layed-off'. A big sell point for me with dropping
over 100G's on an old bus was the total cost is less than the first
year depreciation on a new higher end fleetwood. I do believe that
if a seller has confident claims about the condition of his product,
he should offer a 'Second $5,000.00 warranty' (seller pays second
5G's of a repair within the first year or buyback). There is no
mystery as to why rigs dont sell. Too many sellers view the Market
value as an average of all the Asking Prices. Too many sellers want
to recover cost of maintenance and upkeep and never deduct utility
and use. (Upgrade is a Date sensitive term for upkeep)

Members are also buyers

Gregory O'Connor
94PtRomolandCa

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Lawrence"
wrote:
>
> Financed mine with our Credit Union...no problem.
> Bob Lawrence
> 84 PT36
> Tacoma, Wa
> >
> > Yeah, makes it hard to sell when the banks don't have a book that
> goes back beyond 1990.
> > MH
> > From: Harvey Lawrence
> > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 6:57 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Members helping members
>
> > > Ernie , do you know of any sources of financing an older Blue
> > bird. A potential buyer of my 84 has that problem.
> > > Harvey Lawrence 84 pt 40
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[mbulriss]

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"
wrote:
> I do believe that if a seller has confident claims about the
> condition of his product, he should offer a 'Second $5,000.00
> warranty' (seller pays second 5G's of a repair within the first year

Greg,

Nice idea, but it doesn't seem to work at all in this market. When I
was selling Stagecoach 2 years ago, not only did I price it about $5k
under any comparable units on the market then, but I also offered the
exact kind of open-ended second $$ warranty that you suggest - no
questions asked (specifying only that any work to be done by someone I
trust to know what he was doing - namely Ralph. I had worked the deal
with Ralph to pay him directly, up to the limit of the warranty
amount.) No one else was offering such a deal, but I was confident of
what I had. It had *absolutely* no effect on the sale. The market at
that time seemed like it was full of folks that thought they were
going to be able to get an excellent PT40 for $30K or less!! Ask
Harvey about those people! I think a lot of lookers today are looking
for the excellent shape FC for $10K! Those buyers don't understand
the product and confuse these things with trashed out 20 year old
plastic palaces. Those excellent $10K buses don't exist. If you want
a re-builder project, start with a shell and have at it. You'll be
busy and upside down in a re-builder forever. Stagecoach sold for
what I expected, to a guy that owned several other older buses and who
understood the value of what he was getting.

Mike Bulriss
1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
San Antonio, TX

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"
wrote:
>
> I guess I look at things different, being self employed and one job
> away from being 'layed-off'. A big sell point for me with dropping
> over 100G's on an old bus was the total cost is less than the first
> year depreciation on a new higher end fleetwood. I do believe that
> if a seller has confident claims about the condition of his product,
> he should offer a 'Second $5,000.00 warranty' (seller pays second
> 5G's of a repair within the first year or buyback). There is no
> mystery as to why rigs dont sell. Too many sellers view the Market
> value as an average of all the Asking Prices. Too many sellers want
> to recover cost of maintenance and upkeep and never deduct utility
> and use. (Upgrade is a Date sensitive term for upkeep)
>
> Members are also buyers
>
> Gregory O'Connor
> 94PtRomolandCa
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Lawrence"
> wrote:
> >
> > Financed mine with our Credit Union...no problem.
> > Bob Lawrence
> > 84 PT36
> > Tacoma, Wa
> > >
> > > Yeah, makes it hard to sell when the banks don't have a book that
> > goes back beyond 1990.
> > > MH
> > > From: Harvey Lawrence
> > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 6:57 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Members helping members
> >
> > > > Ernie , do you know of any sources of financing an older Blue
> > > bird. A potential buyer of my 84 has that problem.
> > > > Harvey Lawrence 84 pt 40
> >
>

[rogerwwebb]

Everyone has different expectations for their motor `home.' In
my case, I probably paid too much for my 91WL a few years back and I
know I have spent way too much money on it ever since. Yet, since
accepting the advice of someone from this forum to consider it as
`restoring a vintage vehicle' versus `spending money on an
old motor home,' it has been (most of the time) a great source of
pleasure and pride.



We tailgate at the Hawkeye football games in a designated RV lot and I
always have people comment on our coach. It is easy to be proud of a
BB compared to a used plastic motor home, but it is also very satisfying
to be able to compare favorably to newer coaches, including high-end
coaches that cost one heck of lot more than I have got in my 91.



Roger Webb

Cedar Rapids, IA

91WLWB



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Leroy Eckert]

For What It's Worth: I agree with O'Conner and Roger except I chose another
angle when looking for my bus. I believe in the value approach. Value is the
fair or proper equivalent in money and is determined at a point in time. When
searching for a bus I looked at many coaches in my price range. Understanding
coaches are depreciable assets I ignored the cost of normal maintenance. I did
consider deferred maintenance and any upgrades that were made by previous
owners. I knew when I walked up to the bus I now own that it was in fine shape.
I bought it on the spot.

Did I pay to much? The jury is still out. I paid more than I wanted to pay!
Everything is relative, you get what you pay for. Two years of ownership
has(knock on wood) supported my decision. Very few problems. The majority of
heavy dollars have been spent on elective upgrades.

Like all Bluebird owners, I'm not embarrassed to pull my rig right up next to a
brand new $2,000,000 Prevost. He ain't laugh'n, I am.

Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40
Niceville, FL




----- Original Message -----
From: rogerwwebb
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 11:19 AM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Members helping members




Everyone has different expectations for their motor `home.' In
my case, I probably paid too much for my 91WL a few years back and I
know I have spent way too much money on it ever since. Yet, since
accepting the advice of someone from this forum to consider it as
`restoring a vintage vehicle' versus `spending money on an
old motor home,' it has been (most of the time) a great source of
pleasure and pride.

We tailgate at the Hawkeye football games in a designated RV lot and I
always have people comment on our coach. It is easy to be proud of a
BB compared to a used plastic motor home, but it is also very satisfying
to be able to compare favorably to newer coaches, including high-end
coaches that cost one heck of lot more than I have got in my 91.

Roger Webb

Cedar Rapids, IA

91WLWB

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Wilhelmus Schreurs]

Good point Leroy.
But the biggest thing that matters "Are you happy with the purchase you made"
Nothing else should really matter.

Bill
84FC325SB
Terrace, B.C.

Leroy Eckert wrote:


For What It's Worth: I agree with O'Conner and Roger except I chose another
angle when looking for my bus. I believe in the value approach. Value is the
fair or proper equivalent in money and is determined at a point in time. When
searching for a bus I looked at many coaches in my price range. Understanding
coaches are depreciable assets I ignored the cost of normal maintenance. I did
consider deferred maintenance and any upgrades that were made by previous
owners. I knew when I walked up to the bus I now own that it was in fine shape.
I bought it on the spot.

Did I pay to much? The jury is still out. I paid more than I wanted to pay!
Everything is relative, you get what you pay for. Two years of ownership
has(knock on wood) supported my decision. Very few problems. The majority of
heavy dollars have been spent on elective upgrades.

Like all Bluebird owners, I'm not embarrassed to pull my rig right up next to a
brand new $2,000,000 Prevost. He ain't laugh'n, I am.

Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40
Niceville, FL




----- Original Message -----
From: rogerwwebb
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 11:19 AM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Members helping members




Everyone has different expectations for their motor `home.' In
my case, I probably paid too much for my 91WL a few years back and I
know I have spent way too much money on it ever since. Yet, since
accepting the advice of someone from this forum to consider it as
`restoring a vintage vehicle' versus `spending money on an
old motor home,' it has been (most of the time) a great source of
pleasure and pride.

We tailgate at the Hawkeye football games in a designated RV lot and I
always have people comment on our coach. It is easy to be proud of a
BB compared to a used plastic motor home, but it is also very satisfying
to be able to compare favorably to newer coaches, including high-end
coaches that cost one heck of lot more than I have got in my 91.

Roger Webb

Cedar Rapids, IA

91WLWB

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Yahoo! Groups Links













Bill 84 FC 35 SB "$quanderlodge"
Terrace, B.C. Canada


---------------------------------
All new Yahoo! Mail
---------------------------------
Get news delivered. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your Mail page.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Henry Jay Hannigan]

---Mike:
I agree with your comments.....someone who knows BIRDS will
recognize my 80FC31 is worth $30,000...The bugs have been fixed...I
could rattle on and on but I'll just mention new transmission with a
2 year allison corporation warranty....Heck, I'm already Giving away
my "like new" 90SP36 with 41,000 miles and new tires and fridge
for $75,000!!

enough from me..LOL
\Hank Hannigan
90SP36
80FC31
PS..I may end up storing both in Vegas while I go down under for 6
months......I got PARKING at our house in Melbourne for a big
motohome if anyone wants to visit...email me anytime..

In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss" <mbulriss@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"
> wrote:
> > I do believe that if a seller has confident claims about the
> > condition of his product, he should offer a 'Second $5,000.00
> > warranty' (seller pays second 5G's of a repair within the first
year
>
> Greg,
>
> Nice idea, but it doesn't seem to work at all in this market.
When I
> was selling Stagecoach 2 years ago, not only did I price it about
$5k
> under any comparable units on the market then, but I also offered
the
> exact kind of open-ended second $$ warranty that you suggest - no
> questions asked (specifying only that any work to be done by
someone I
> trust to know what he was doing - namely Ralph. I had worked the
deal
> with Ralph to pay him directly, up to the limit of the warranty
> amount.) No one else was offering such a deal, but I was
confident of
> what I had. It had *absolutely* no effect on the sale. The
market at
> that time seemed like it was full of folks that thought they were
> going to be able to get an excellent PT40 for $30K or less!! Ask
> Harvey about those people! I think a lot of lookers today are
looking
> for the excellent shape FC for $10K! Those buyers don't understand
> the product and confuse these things with trashed out 20 year old
> plastic palaces. Those excellent $10K buses don't exist. If you
want
> a re-builder project, start with a shell and have at it. You'll be
> busy and upside down in a re-builder forever. Stagecoach sold for
> what I expected, to a guy that owned several other older buses and
who
> understood the value of what he was getting.
>
> Mike Bulriss
> 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
> San Antonio, TX
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"
> wrote:
> >
> > I guess I look at things different, being self employed and one
job
> > away from being 'layed-off'. A big sell point for me with
dropping
> > over 100G's on an old bus was the total cost is less than the
first
> > year depreciation on a new higher end fleetwood. I do believe
that
> > if a seller has confident claims about the condition of his
product,
> > he should offer a 'Second $5,000.00 warranty' (seller pays
second
> > 5G's of a repair within the first year or buyback). There is no
> > mystery as to why rigs dont sell. Too many sellers view the
Market
> > value as an average of all the Asking Prices. Too many sellers
want
> > to recover cost of maintenance and upkeep and never deduct
utility
> > and use. (Upgrade is a Date sensitive term for upkeep)
> >
> > Members are also buyers
> >
> > Gregory O'Connor
> > 94PtRomolandCa
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Lawrence"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Financed mine with our Credit Union...no problem.
> > > Bob Lawrence
> > > 84 PT36
> > > Tacoma, Wa
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, makes it hard to sell when the banks don't have a book
that
> > > goes back beyond 1990.
> > > > MH
> > > > From: Harvey Lawrence
> > > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 6:57 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Members helping members
> > >
> > > > > Ernie , do you know of any sources of financing an older
Blue
> > > > bird. A potential buyer of my 84 has that problem.
> > > > > Harvey Lawrence 84 pt 40
> > >
> >
>

[birdshill123]

This has been an interesting discussion. One thing that has not been
mentioned is that the buyer determines the final price not the seller.
I may think my unit is worth $60,000 because I have new tires,
transmission ,etc. But if the potential buyers balk at this price and I
get no offers then I am wrong. As BB owners we all know that there is
more value in one of our units than an old Pace Arrow. But just what is
that premium? If I reduce my price to $45,000 and there are still no
offers then that price is also too high. If I get a few offers of say
$38,000 to $40,000 then maybe that is the actual value. I am not
suggesting that one should reduce the price after a few weeks or even
months but a simple search of some of the BB sites will reveal units
that have been for sale for a year or more. These are not houses they
are depreciating assets. If a unit did not draw it's asking price a
year ago it is unlikely it will get that price today. As a seller you
have the option of not selling your unit at what you might consider a
very low offer. Remember your price is an ASKING price. Sometimes it is
better to let go and move on. I had a restored Clark Cortez many years
ago. When it came time to sell I thought it was worth $10,000. I had
spent more than that on upgrades and spare parts. I did not get one
offer. Finally a fellow that restored antique aircraft came to see the
unit. He loved it and offered $5000. I managed to get $6000 and it
killed me but that was it's value.


Bruce 1988 FC35

[Gardner Yeaw]

I agree that when I am fixing things on my FC I think of it as
restoration, not repair. Each time I get an original system or
device working it adds to my enjoyment of the experience. Oh, there
might be a few choice words utterred during the process, but in the
end I get closer to the goal of a fully restored Bluebird. I may
never get there, but I'm having a lot of fun on the way.

Without the books, diagrams, and this forum it would be a
daunting task, but with the unselfish knowledge sharing and
friendly atmosphere on this forum and others it becomes a very
satisfying experience.

Gardner
78FC33
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Wilhelmus Schreurs
wrote:
>
> Good point Leroy.
> But the biggest thing that matters "Are you happy with the
purchase you made"
> Nothing else should really matter.
>
> Bill
> 84FC325SB
> Terrace, B.C.
>
> Leroy Eckert wrote:
>
>
> For What It's Worth: I agree with O'Conner and Roger except I
chose another angle when looking for my bus. I believe in the value
approach. Value is the fair or proper equivalent in money and is
determined at a point in time. When searching for a bus I looked at
many coaches in my price range. Understanding coaches are
depreciable assets I ignored the cost of normal maintenance. I did
consider deferred maintenance and any upgrades that were made by
previous owners. I knew when I walked up to the bus I now own that
it was in fine shape. I bought it on the spot.
>
> Did I pay to much? The jury is still out. I paid more than I
wanted to pay! Everything is relative, you get what you pay for. Two
years of ownership has(knock on wood) supported my decision. Very
few problems. The majority of heavy dollars have been spent on
elective upgrades.
>
> Like all Bluebird owners, I'm not embarrassed to pull my rig right
up next to a brand new $2,000,000 Prevost. He ain't laugh'n, I am.
>
> Leroy Eckert
> 1990 WB-40
> Niceville, FL
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: rogerwwebb
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 11:19 AM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Members helping members
>
>
>
>
> Everyone has different expectations for their motor `home.' In
> my case, I probably paid too much for my 91WL a few years back and
I
> know I have spent way too much money on it ever since. Yet, since
> accepting the advice of someone from this forum to consider it as
> `restoring a vintage vehicle' versus `spending money on an
> old motor home,' it has been (most of the time) a great source of
> pleasure and pride.
>
> We tailgate at the Hawkeye football games in a designated RV lot
and I
> always have people comment on our coach. It is easy to be proud of
a
> BB compared to a used plastic motor home, but it is also very
satisfying
> to be able to compare favorably to newer coaches, including high-
end
> coaches that cost one heck of lot more than I have got in my 91.
>
> Roger Webb
>
> Cedar Rapids, IA
>
> 91WLWB
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bill 84 FC 35 SB "$quanderlodge"
> Terrace, B.C. Canada
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> All new Yahoo! Mail
> ---------------------------------
> Get news delivered. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your Mail page.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[one_dusty_hoot]

You are so right Bruce.

Something else happens from overpricing also, I have heard it
called "shop worn". It is the dimished value a product gets by
being visible FOR SALE for such a long time. Many potential buyers
saw it at a higher price, then when the price has dropped, they
consider something wrong because no one has boughtit, hence no one
wants it.

Bob Janes, Greenville, SC

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "birdshill123"
wrote:
>
> This has been an interesting discussion. One thing that has not
been
> mentioned is that the buyer determines the final price not the
seller.
> I may think my unit is worth $60,000 because I have new tires,
> transmission ,etc. But if the potential buyers balk at this price
and I
> get no offers then I am wrong. As BB owners we all know that there
is
> more value in one of our units than an old Pace Arrow. But just
what is
> that premium? If I reduce my price to $45,000 and there are still
no
> offers then that price is also too high. If I get a few offers of
say
> $38,000 to $40,000 then maybe that is the actual value. I am not
> suggesting that one should reduce the price after a few weeks or
even
> months but a simple search of some of the BB sites will reveal
units
> that have been for sale for a year or more. These are not houses
they
> are depreciating assets. If a unit did not draw it's asking price a
> year ago it is unlikely it will get that price today. As a seller
you
> have the option of not selling your unit at what you might consider
a
> very low offer. Remember your price is an ASKING price. Sometimes
it is
> better to let go and move on. I had a restored Clark Cortez many
years
> ago. When it came time to sell I thought it was worth $10,000. I
had
> spent more than that on upgrades and spare parts. I did not get one
> offer. Finally a fellow that restored antique aircraft came to see
the
> unit. He loved it and offered $5000. I managed to get $6000 and it
> killed me but that was it's value.
>
>
> Bruce 1988 FC35
>