NADA Wanderlodge Listings

[markusfmeyer]

(04-21-2015 11:30)davidbrady Wrote:  ... Together, if we act in good faith, we can reverse this path and fix the NADA pricing of Wanderlodges while retaining all the benefits that come with the NADA RV Guide. It's up to the Wanderlodge Community to politely ask these dealer/brokers if they are interested...

Maybe I'm beating a dead horse asking this, but what are the benefits?

[mpierce]

(04-21-2015 13:42)markusfmeyer Wrote:  

(04-21-2015 11:30)davidbrady Wrote:  ... Together, if we act in good faith, we can reverse this path and fix the NADA pricing of Wanderlodges while retaining all the benefits that come with the NADA RV Guide. It's up to the Wanderlodge Community to politely ask these dealer/brokers if they are interested...

Maybe I'm beating a dead horse asking this, but what are the benefits?

The ones I have heard is that for the newer buses, probably 2000 and newer, NADA has overvalued them, so owners can use prices that are too high for insurance and loans. The objection at first was that they would lose this overvaluation.

But, if NADA actually had the correct value, they would lose this "advantage" too, so I am not quite sure what "victory" this would be.

I guess going to a NADA value to look at what a particular year model sold for might be an advantage, but with only a couple at most selling for each year, I personally do not think there is much value, as there is such wide differences in coaches.

I have no problem with NADA values, if close to accurate. However, it will require all sellers of BB's to report those sales to NADA. They currently can, but are not, doing that. It will require convincing them to do the work.

[Itchintogo]

I think this is very good news. NADA is willing to work with the dealers and brokers alike. If these people who make a living from the sale of these units co-operate then it is a win win for everyone. I can not see why they would not. The information legacy lives on.

The values of the later models with co-operation will be corrected as well as the older models with co-operation will receive support and perhaps an increase. All will slowly correct itself. Especially important for the 80's and 90's crowd who are currently under valued.

I do not use financing for personal recreational items or vehicles myself but the person who bought my bus did. NADA actually was what the bank looked at and then asked what equipment options my unit had. The loan approval was based on the facilitation of that information. So don't rule out NADA on older units. It depends on how the lender interprets it, what their guidelines are and how the transaction is handled. More on this further down.

I sold my bus at a price I was very pleased with. It sold through CL and not through any of the forums or brokers. No one forum is necessary for you to keep your Bird on the road.

I do appreciate WAGU and David for the free listing I had on Wanderlodge Trader. It was more than anyone else in the community offered me, and I believe it remains open to all of us. No charge so take advantage. Thank you David for your work on this. Quite selfless.

Lenders. As for NADA and the value it provides I have read many sort of rah rah sis boom bah type of posts where people say an Appraisal is worth more than NADA. I think it is more of a combination of several factors. The trouble is most of the posters saying this are not bankers nor do they work in finance. NADA played a role in the sale of my 32 year old coach.

Having spent a good number of years in finance I can tell you there are lenders who will use appraisals and other forms of valuation along with client viability.

Many lenders only accept appraisals from certain people and or companies. Like tires and toilet paper, everyone has their favourite. Very common.

For the most part a Lender wants an Appraiser who is arms length and very "third party" so as to not sway the valuation of the goods or real estate for sale. They generally prefer a company that has the knowledge of the product but very little personal intimacy. You would too if you were lending your money.

Given the hundreds of forum posts out there does anyone think that really exists? Just a little investigating and my eyes are open wide. Keeping Nada is important as one piece of "non influenced" piece legacy data as well as the other details it provides.

I encourage you all to contact NADA and ask for them to retain the WB Brand.

[davidbrady]

Very well stated Gary. I think that should answer Markus's question. If it doesn't, then nothing will. I'd like to add a little emphasis to your last point, and that's the other details NADA provides. Anyone who loves this brand has got to appreciate the reference material that NADA provides. If you have never, just spend a moment clicking your way thru the many pages for the many years of birds. You'll be surprised what you'll learn. For any given year you can find all the bird models built, their lengths, configurations, and options available at the time. Top this off with the original retail price. NADA is absolutely a wonderful reference resource. It's been built up during the years when Wanderlodges were manufactured - priceless. It simply must be preserved.

[cmillsap]

May I add one other thing to the conversation? It was insinuated that overvalued NADA values on my bus allowed me to get it covered for more than it is worth. I don’t know about other insurance company’s policy regarding their issuance of agreed value policies. I do know that it didn’t matter how much the NADA value was above what I paid for it, my insurance company would only issue a policy for no more than the amount that I paid for the bus or less.

So if that is the standard rule with all RV insurers then the NADA over valuing of an RV would have no effect in providing owners with inflated coverage. I’d guess the reasoning for this is that they are in the business of insuring you loss and not in the business of assisting owners in making a profit off their insurance policy.

[DonB]

(04-21-2015 17:15)davidbrady Wrote:  For any given year you can find all the bird models built, their lengths, configurations, and options available at the time.

You've mentioned this a couple of times. Part of it is true for some years, some of it may not be available for any year. I've mostly only looked at years I've owned, so there may be some glaring exceptions where all that is actually there, but I doubt it.

In 1990, for example, for the WB and SP there are only "All floor plans." No mention of the side and center baths, no mention of the Royale conversions.

I just compared the 2004 M380 double-slide with an SOB I owned, a 2003 Safari double-slide. The available options are identical, from the top of the list to the bottom. Most of those options were not available on either coach, and a number of options that were available were not mentioned for either.

The options list for the 04 M380 and the 03 Safari are also identical to the 2002 LXi. They differ from the '90, but again the options list for the '90 bears NO relation to reality. I particular like the '90 options of Tip-out Room 8' and Tip-out Room 12'

Now as to the proposed solution: As this thread was ramping up, your complaint was that Randy would become the arbiter of prices if there was no NADA, now you want to make him a major arbiter of NADA prices?

I personally don't care whether Birds are on NADA or not, or even if their prices are correct. They had no bearing on either of my purchases of a Bird nor on my insurance or my one sale of a Bird. I jumped into this because of all of the illogical arguments, and I'm an argumentative guy.

[davidbrady]

Well Don,

Find me a source of Blue Bird Wanderlodge material that's 100% accurate. Sure anyone can cherry pick and one is only going to see what one wants to see. I'm afraid that's the case here. Believe me, you're not the first to take a look at the data and see discrepancies and repeats. I went thru the same exercise myself and I still walked away with the strong notion that this is worth saving.

As to Randy and BBBB funneling their transaction prices into NADA and thereby setting the prices. Really??? Again, another original thought. Yes this is true and hopefully the data will be factual and substantiated and not made up, and hopefully other dealer/brokers will do the same. Yes this is the marketplace we live in and we need to make the best of it. This wasn't lost on any of us either. The fact that these real sales transactions are reported to NADA is a boon to anyone shopping for and selling a bird. I don't think I need to enumerate why this is the case.

The fact is NADA prices have been lamented for years. The topic comes up endlessly. What we learned thru this thread and investigation is that it's within our power to fix it. So, you can be part of the solution or part of the problem. The solution is there in the hands of BBBB, BirdConnection, Parliament Coach and the rest of the dealer/brokers. The reason NADA pricing is a mess is because this group has not fed NADA with factual up to date real world sales transaction prices. It's within their power to fix. Will they? Or, will the tear it down. If they choose not to fix it then why?

[DonB]

(04-21-2015 19:55)davidbrady Wrote:  Find me a source of Blue Bird Wanderlodge material that's 100% accurate. Sure anyone can cherry pick and one is only going to see what one wants to see.

100% accuracy is impossible, but nearly zero %?

I tried hard not to cherry-pick, but perhaps I failed. What I'm offering for you is a chance to actually cherry-pick:

Find a listing for ANY Wanderlodge where the options list is accurate? Heck, I'll accept 50% accuracy. In other words, at least half the options listed were actually available and at least half the options that were available are listed.

There is inaccurate, and there is wildly misleading. From what I see, NADA falls in the latter category for floor plans, prices, and options. There is the possibility of tilting at windmills on the price side, but not even that for the rest of it.

The incomplete listings on the Vintage Bird site do more for model info than anything on NADA.

[davidbrady]

Don,

You're throwing a red herring into the conversation. The real question, which I've also asked endlessly is why won't BBBB provide pricing to NADA? Why won't they make an effort to bring up to date something that's been lamented for years? It's within their power and I'm sure Randy has known it all along. What is the benefit to BBBB?

[DonB]

(04-21-2015 20:20)davidbrady Wrote:  Don,

You're throwing a red herring into the conversation. The real question, which I've also asked endlessly is why won't BBBB provide pricing to NADA? Why won't they make an effort to bring up to date something that's been lamented for years? It's within their power and I'm sure Randy has known it all along. What is the benefit to BBBB?

Oh, we've both been juggling herrings of all colors. On this latest - none of us were aware that non-NADA members could have even a remote chance of updating prices, how can you be "sure" that Randy did?

What's important keeps shifting. When the inaccuracy of the prices is the problem, the important thing is the history of things like the (completely fictional) options list. When that is in question, its back to the prices, yet you are uninterested in lobbying to have your own vehicle priced there. Why are the prices now important? It is clear that, when NADA listings don't exist the banks and insurers will accept other valid info, but when bad listings exist they may use those instead. If I were you I wouldn't want my bus listed either, but it is disingenuous to keep pushing for Wanderlodge listings at the same time.