Why the engine replacements?

[ronmarabito2002]

Greg:

You have no or negligable back pressure in a diesel. This works
fine on a gasoline powered engine, but not a diesel. You need a
retarder of some sort.

R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"
wrote:
> Phil you and many of the operators that read this forum know about
> over rpm damage but I think it deserves to be pointed out that you
> can cook a motor by over rpming "r'ing" on a down hill with your
> foot off the fuel. by using back pressure in the motor and a
lower
> gear I never let the r's go over 2,000 before I ride the brakes
> slowing the r's to 1,800. on a down hill I flip the fan overide
> switch which puts a load on the engine and helps to keep it in the
r
> range. One other reason I think the engines are swapped inplace
of a
> rebuild or inframe repair is ;A coach sold with unknown engine
probs
> is sold so low $ that a reman swap is cost effective and gives the
> new owner peace of mind. I run the limits on oilchanges, I dont do
> sampling because I dont want to spend the $ or see the results, I
> stopped using additives after Rogain failed me back in the 80's.
It
> may be wise to do all the over maintaining things but as Jeff
Miller
> points out doing the right maintainance at the proper time is
key.
> Greg
> Bald in California
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Christina Corpus"
> wrote:
> > Greg,
> >
> > I agree with you that low mileage motors probably weren't
replaced
> > because they were worn out. More a matter of something breaking
due
> > to misuse.
> >
> > Lack of knowledge on how to operate a heavy diesel powered
vehicle
> > (over- taching the RPM's or lugging it down) results in an
expensive
> > lesson. Good reason to read the operator manuals.
> >
> > When my wife and I are looking at cockpit photos of units for
sale,
> > she kids me about, "it's got all of the guages you want." I
tell
> her,
> > "the more, the merrier." All those guages tell me what is
happening
> > under the dog house and floor boards.
> >
> > Keep the R's up and temp down.
> >
> > Phil
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"
> > wrote:
> > > Phil, I just bought a 94pt40 last month and started looking
two
> > > months prior. I too found it unusual that low mile birds had
new
> > > engines. I have several dump trucks with over 400,000 and
drive
> > them
> > > hard off road and they have the orig powerplants. The 3208
Cats
> > are
> > > not a sleve cylinder engine and an inframe is not possible but
> with
> > > such low miles I dont think they ever get worn out. I think
> > > operators are over tacking the Cats or lugging them and burning
> > them
> > > up. The 4 and 5 allison gives less room for mistakes then a 10
> > speed
> > > manual shift. I have a 8v92 detroit and let me tell you that I
> have
> > > alot to learn as I try to keep the r's up and the temp down. I
> > look
> > > at the gauges and once in a while I look at the road. It is
hard
> > to
> > > climb a hill and keep the trans from down shifting to a lug
with
> > only
> > > 5 speeds to use. I think the detroits were just driven wrong.
> Cant
> > > go wrong if you get a bird from Miller coach works or Randy
> Dupree,
> > > wish I did.
> > >
> > > Greg O'Connor
> > > 94pt40 CAlifornia
> > >
> > >

[Gregory OConnor]

Ron, good point, a hydrolic trans retarder , exhaust retarder, or
valve retarder to slow a vehicle down are all tools used to keep the
vehicle incontrol and engine from spinning apart. An operator error
at 500,000 miles is the same as one at 5,000 miles. Lack of
knowledge and operator skill is a big cause of premature engine
failure. As a rule I decend a hill no more than 10mph faster than I
could climb the same hill.
Greg
94pt40

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "ronmarabito2002"
wrote:
> Greg:
>
> You have no or negligable back pressure in a diesel. This
works
> fine on a gasoline powered engine, but not a diesel. You need a
> retarder of some sort.
>
> R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"
> wrote:
> > Phil you and many of the operators that read this forum know
about
> > over rpm damage but I think it deserves to be pointed out that
you
> > can cook a motor by over rpming "r'ing" on a down hill with your
> > foot off the fuel. by using back pressure in the motor and a
> lower
> > gear I never let the r's go over 2,000 before I ride the brakes
> > slowing the r's to 1,800. on a down hill I flip the fan overide
> > switch which puts a load on the engine and helps to keep it in
the
> r
> > range. One other reason I think the engines are swapped inplace
> of a
> > rebuild or inframe repair is ;A coach sold with unknown engine
> probs
> > is sold so low $ that a reman swap is cost effective and gives
the
> > new owner peace of mind. I run the limits on oilchanges, I dont
do
> > sampling because I dont want to spend the $ or see the results, I
> > stopped using additives after Rogain failed me back in the 80's.
> It
> > may be wise to do all the over maintaining things but as Jeff
> Miller
> > points out doing the right maintainance at the proper time is
> key.
> > Greg
> > Bald in California
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Christina Corpus"
> > wrote:
> > > Greg,
> > >
> > > I agree with you that low mileage motors probably weren't
> replaced
> > > because they were worn out. More a matter of something
breaking
> due
> > > to misuse.
> > >
> > > Lack of knowledge on how to operate a heavy diesel powered
> vehicle
> > > (over- taching the RPM's or lugging it down) results in an
> expensive
> > > lesson. Good reason to read the operator manuals.
> > >
> > > When my wife and I are looking at cockpit photos of units for
> sale,
> > > she kids me about, "it's got all of the guages you want." I
> tell
> > her,
> > > "the more, the merrier." All those guages tell me what is
> happening
> > > under the dog house and floor boards.
> > >
> > > Keep the R's up and temp down.
> > >
> > > Phil
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"
> > > wrote:
> > > > Phil, I just bought a 94pt40 last month and started looking
> two
> > > > months prior. I too found it unusual that low mile birds had
> new
> > > > engines. I have several dump trucks with over 400,000 and
> drive
> > > them
> > > > hard off road and they have the orig powerplants. The 3208
> Cats
> > > are
> > > > not a sleve cylinder engine and an inframe is not possible
but
> > with
> > > > such low miles I dont think they ever get worn out. I think
> > > > operators are over tacking the Cats or lugging them and
burning
> > > them
> > > > up. The 4 and 5 allison gives less room for mistakes then a 10
> > > speed
> > > > manual shift. I have a 8v92 detroit and let me tell you that
I
> > have
> > > > alot to learn as I try to keep the r's up and the temp down.
I
> > > look
> > > > at the gauges and once in a while I look at the road. It is
> hard
> > > to
> > > > climb a hill and keep the trans from down shifting to a lug
> with
> > > only
> > > > 5 speeds to use. I think the detroits were just driven
wrong.
> > Cant
> > > > go wrong if you get a bird from Miller coach works or Randy
> > Dupree,
> > > > wish I did.
> > > >
> > > > Greg O'Connor
> > > > 94pt40 CAlifornia
> > > >
> > > >

[Henry Jay Hannigan]

---GARY:
You mentioned "change oil before storage." Could you expand your
comments a bit. eg 1200 miles on oil..is it ok to put in
storage?? where is the "change oil" miles point in your opinion as
I am storing my BIRD for six months or so.
Thanks,
HANK HANNIGAN
90SP36
In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Christina Corpus"
wrote:
> Gary,
>
> Thanks for your reply.
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Miller"
> wrote:
> > Phil,
> >
> > Very good question. I've pondered the same thing before and
would
> > have to agree with your assumptions #1 and #4, with #2 being a
part
> > of #4.
> >
> > I've been following the Wanderlodge forums for 4 years or so
now,
> > and am often amazed when the topic of lubrication comes up and
> > people are trying to figure out the minimum they can get away
with
> > when maintaining their engines/drivelines. Do I hafta use
> expensive
> > lubricants? Do I hafta change the oil before storage? Should I
> > bother with oil sampling? Should I bother with additives in the
> > coolant? Normally these folks become converts to proper
mechanical
> > maintenance after the discussions, but there are folks out there
> who
> > don't partake in the forum.
>
> Kind of like the old TV ad, "Pay me now, or pay me later." Sounds
> like asking a seller whether or not he has all his service records
> available would be a good idea. If not, then it's 'buyer beware'
> time.
>
>
> > How often should I check the oil? Well, if you have to ask,
> > probably more often than you are...
>
> Copy that.
>
> >
> > Regarding assumption #1, I saw receipts from an owner of a fresh
> > transmission fluid and filter change (internal and external).
His
> > transmission had no internal filter (to my knowledge), and the
spin
> > on filter had a date marked on it with marker over 5 years old!
I
> > insist on keeping a friendly eye on the folks who work on my
coach
> > (rare).
>
> ...and since there is more money to made...
>
>
> >
> > Some folks overspin their engines. This'll kill the CAT. The
way
> I
> > understand it the valve springs can't keep up and it eats a
valve.
>
> One company I worked for installed a CAT engine into one its medium
> duty trucks. It was replacing a Cummins. The thing I remember
about
> driving that truck after the swap was how quickly the CAT engine
> peaked out in each gear. You definitely had to watch the tach.
>
>
> > These coaches were built when the national speed limit was 55
and
> > most were geared for about 65 max. So unless you install a new
> rear
> > end or larger tires, that's all you should do. As you know, the
> > governor won't slow the engine if the driver wants to point the
rig
> > downhill and mat the pedal and some tach's are in need of
> > adjustments after many years.
>
> Out here in California, we have the Grapevine heading north out of
Los
> Angeles. On the north side, northbound, the speed limit for
trucks is
> 35 mph. I downshift my 78,000 pound truck into 6th gear, engage
the
> Jake brake, and cruise down that grade at 18 mph, never touching
the
> brake pedal. I am constantly amazed at all the motorhomes that
pass
> me going full tilt down that mountain. I mean, they are keeping up
> with the cars that are going down at 75 mph. You can hear the
engines
> winding out tight.
>
> > There's always the temptation to be motoring on down the road,
but
> > hey, if there's a house on your back, what's the hurry? You're
> >already there.
>
> Our plan is to full time, so this is exactly our philosophy.
>
>
> >
> > The engines are all very staunch, heavy duty top line units.
But
> > they're only bulletproof with proper maintenance.
> >
> > I wouldn't make the assumption that all the engines have a
> checkered
> > past though. What you are seeing is a small percentage of
coaches
> > that have been misunderstood by their owners and are being sold.
>
> It appears from the responses to my question from everyone that
there
> is no issue regarding the durability of the engines used in the
> Bluebird.
>
>
> >
> > I would look for an owner who baby's his coach, changes fluids
and
> > keeps records, gets oil samples, and generally would rather keep
> his
> > coach than sell it. Oh wait...that's me!
>
> My wife is very impressed with your coach. I have to remind her
what
> our plans are and that 35 feet is the minimum we've decided on.
Now
> if you could figure out how to extend your unit 2-3 feet... :>)
>
> >
> > Gary Miller
> > 83 FC 33 - For Sale 'millercoachworks.com'
> > Milwaukee area
> >

[Gary Miller]

Hi Hank,

I'm not an expert, but it's my understanding the oil will have
contaminants in it after use. How much contaminants would likely
depend upon the type of usage during the 1200 miles. For example,
short term start-ups would not allow the engine and oil to heat up
and disperse/degrade the contaminants like a long drive would.

Oil has usage AND time limits on the change interval. I'm not sure
how long (time) you can go between changes but normally, I believe,
annual changes are recommended. To truly determine if the oil is
meeting manufacturer standards, I suppose an engineer could sample
it, determine the pH and contaminant level, compare it to a graph or
some other data, and then project out the quality of the oil over a
six month period.

I like having fresh oil when going into winter storage for several
reasons. The lack of contaminants which can degrade the oil over
time and perhaps engine components/seals, a fresh oil analysis which
allows me time over the winter to consider if repairs may be
forthcoming, fresh oil at the start of the season in spring which is
one less item to accomplish, and fresh clean oil in the engine all
winter which means the additives in the oil are all in top condition
as it rests against seals, bearings,and other components.

I would rather crank my engine with fresh oil in it than dirty oil
in it after sitting for long periods.

It may or may not make a substantial difference, but since I don't
know how long I want the engine to last, I do everything I can to
ensure it will last, for me, indefinately.

So to sum up, the way I understand it, contaminants in the oil and
pH changes are part of the breakdown process over time, not just the
thermal and viscous breakdown from usage.

While it is a bummer that you only have 1200 miles on the oil, if it
is going to sit for six months, I'd go with fresh oil. Right now,
the pH is changing and it has some contaminants.

Perhaps someone can help us elaborate as to whether starting and
using the engine once a month will provide a rejuvinating effect to
the oil?

Gary Miller
83 FC 33 - For Sale 'millercoachworks.com'
Milwaukee area

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Henry Jay Hannigan"
wrote:
> ---GARY:
> You mentioned "change oil before storage." Could you expand your
> comments a bit. eg 1200 miles on oil..is it ok to put in
> storage?? where is the "change oil" miles point in your opinion
as
> I am storing my BIRD for six months or so.
> Thanks,
> HANK HANNIGAN
> 90SP36
> In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Christina Corpus"
> wrote:
> > Gary,
> >
> > Thanks for your reply.
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Miller"
> > wrote:
> > > Phil,
> > >
> > > Very good question. I've pondered the same thing before and
> would
> > > have to agree with your assumptions #1 and #4, with #2 being a
> part
> > > of #4.
> > >
> > > I've been following the Wanderlodge forums for 4 years or so
> now,
> > > and am often amazed when the topic of lubrication comes up and
> > > people are trying to figure out the minimum they can get away
> with
> > > when maintaining their engines/drivelines. Do I hafta use
> > expensive
> > > lubricants? Do I hafta change the oil before storage? Should
I
> > > bother with oil sampling? Should I bother with additives in
the
> > > coolant? Normally these folks become converts to proper
> mechanical
> > > maintenance after the discussions, but there are folks out
there
> > who
> > > don't partake in the forum.
> >
> > Kind of like the old TV ad, "Pay me now, or pay me later."
Sounds
> > like asking a seller whether or not he has all his service
records
> > available would be a good idea. If not, then it's 'buyer beware'
> > time.
> >
> >
> > > How often should I check the oil? Well, if you have to ask,
> > > probably more often than you are...
> >
> > Copy that.
> >
> > >
> > > Regarding assumption #1, I saw receipts from an owner of a
fresh
> > > transmission fluid and filter change (internal and external).
> His
> > > transmission had no internal filter (to my knowledge), and the
> spin
> > > on filter had a date marked on it with marker over 5 years
old!
> I
> > > insist on keeping a friendly eye on the folks who work on my
> coach
> > > (rare).
> >
> > ...and since there is more money to made...
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Some folks overspin their engines. This'll kill the CAT. The
> way
> > I
> > > understand it the valve springs can't keep up and it eats a
> valve.
> >
> > One company I worked for installed a CAT engine into one its
medium
> > duty trucks. It was replacing a Cummins. The thing I remember
> about
> > driving that truck after the swap was how quickly the CAT engine
> > peaked out in each gear. You definitely had to watch the tach.
> >
> >
> > > These coaches were built when the national speed limit was 55
> and
> > > most were geared for about 65 max. So unless you install a new
> > rear
> > > end or larger tires, that's all you should do. As you know,
the
> > > governor won't slow the engine if the driver wants to point
the
> rig
> > > downhill and mat the pedal and some tach's are in need of
> > > adjustments after many years.
> >
> > Out here in California, we have the Grapevine heading north out
of
> Los
> > Angeles. On the north side, northbound, the speed limit for
> trucks is
> > 35 mph. I downshift my 78,000 pound truck into 6th gear, engage
> the
> > Jake brake, and cruise down that grade at 18 mph, never touching
> the
> > brake pedal. I am constantly amazed at all the motorhomes that
> pass
> > me going full tilt down that mountain. I mean, they are keeping
up
> > with the cars that are going down at 75 mph. You can hear the
> engines
> > winding out tight.
> >
> > > There's always the temptation to be motoring on down the
road,
> but
> > > hey, if there's a house on your back, what's the hurry? You're
> > >already there.
> >
> > Our plan is to full time, so this is exactly our philosophy.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > The engines are all very staunch, heavy duty top line units.
> But
> > > they're only bulletproof with proper maintenance.
> > >
> > > I wouldn't make the assumption that all the engines have a
> > checkered
> > > past though. What you are seeing is a small percentage of
> coaches
> > > that have been misunderstood by their owners and are being
sold.
> >
> > It appears from the responses to my question from everyone that
> there
> > is no issue regarding the durability of the engines used in the
> > Bluebird.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I would look for an owner who baby's his coach, changes fluids
> and
> > > keeps records, gets oil samples, and generally would rather
keep
> > his
> > > coach than sell it. Oh wait...that's me!
> >
> > My wife is very impressed with your coach. I have to remind her
> what
> > our plans are and that 35 feet is the minimum we've decided on.
> Now
> > if you could figure out how to extend your unit 2-3 feet... :>)
> >
> > >
> > > Gary Miller
> > > 83 FC 33 - For Sale 'millercoachworks.com'
> > > Milwaukee area
> > >

[Henry Jay Hannigan]

---GARY:
Thanks for your comments about storing my BIRD with 1200 miles on
the oil for 6 months or more..your advice is to put fresh in and get
rid of the 1200 mile oil. my bird has a relatively new engine mile
wise with only 41000 miles on it as such i'll probably leave
the "old"" oil in in for 6 months or so. Hate to leave the bird
that long but have a couple places to go.
regards,.
HANK HANNIGAN
90SP36

In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Miller"
wrote:
> Hi Hank,
>
> I'm not an expert, but it's my understanding the oil will have
> contaminants in it after use. How much contaminants would likely
> depend upon the type of usage during the 1200 miles. For example,
> short term start-ups would not allow the engine and oil to heat up
> and disperse/degrade the contaminants like a long drive would.
>
> Oil has usage AND time limits on the change interval. I'm not
sure
> how long (time) you can go between changes but normally, I
believe,
> annual changes are recommended. To truly determine if the oil is
> meeting manufacturer standards, I suppose an engineer could sample
> it, determine the pH and contaminant level, compare it to a graph
or
> some other data, and then project out the quality of the oil over
a
> six month period.
>
> I like having fresh oil when going into winter storage for several
> reasons. The lack of contaminants which can degrade the oil over
> time and perhaps engine components/seals, a fresh oil analysis
which
> allows me time over the winter to consider if repairs may be
> forthcoming, fresh oil at the start of the season in spring which
is
> one less item to accomplish, and fresh clean oil in the engine all
> winter which means the additives in the oil are all in top
condition
> as it rests against seals, bearings,and other components.
>
> I would rather crank my engine with fresh oil in it than dirty oil
> in it after sitting for long periods.
>
> It may or may not make a substantial difference, but since I don't
> know how long I want the engine to last, I do everything I can to
> ensure it will last, for me, indefinately.
>
> So to sum up, the way I understand it, contaminants in the oil and
> pH changes are part of the breakdown process over time, not just
the
> thermal and viscous breakdown from usage.
>
> While it is a bummer that you only have 1200 miles on the oil, if
it
> is going to sit for six months, I'd go with fresh oil. Right now,
> the pH is changing and it has some contaminants.
>
> Perhaps someone can help us elaborate as to whether starting and
> using the engine once a month will provide a rejuvinating effect
to
> the oil?
>
> Gary Miller
> 83 FC 33 - For Sale 'millercoachworks.com'
> Milwaukee area
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Henry Jay Hannigan"
> wrote:
> > ---GARY:
> > You mentioned "change oil before storage." Could you expand
your
> > comments a bit. eg 1200 miles on oil..is it ok to put in
> > storage?? where is the "change oil" miles point in your opinion
> as
> > I am storing my BIRD for six months or so.
> > Thanks,
> > HANK HANNIGAN
> > 90SP36
> > In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Christina Corpus"
> > wrote:
> > > Gary,
> > >
> > > Thanks for your reply.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Miller"
> > > wrote:
> > > > Phil,
> > > >
> > > > Very good question. I've pondered the same thing before and
> > would
> > > > have to agree with your assumptions #1 and #4, with #2 being
a
> > part
> > > > of #4.
> > > >
> > > > I've been following the Wanderlodge forums for 4 years or so
> > now,
> > > > and am often amazed when the topic of lubrication comes up
and
> > > > people are trying to figure out the minimum they can get
away
> > with
> > > > when maintaining their engines/drivelines. Do I hafta use
> > > expensive
> > > > lubricants? Do I hafta change the oil before storage?
Should
> I
> > > > bother with oil sampling? Should I bother with additives in
> the
> > > > coolant? Normally these folks become converts to proper
> > mechanical
> > > > maintenance after the discussions, but there are folks out
> there
> > > who
> > > > don't partake in the forum.
> > >
> > > Kind of like the old TV ad, "Pay me now, or pay me later."
> Sounds
> > > like asking a seller whether or not he has all his service
> records
> > > available would be a good idea. If not, then it's 'buyer
beware'
> > > time.
> > >
> > >
> > > > How often should I check the oil? Well, if you have to ask,
> > > > probably more often than you are...
> > >
> > > Copy that.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Regarding assumption #1, I saw receipts from an owner of a
> fresh
> > > > transmission fluid and filter change (internal and
external).
> > His
> > > > transmission had no internal filter (to my knowledge), and
the
> > spin
> > > > on filter had a date marked on it with marker over 5 years
> old!
> > I
> > > > insist on keeping a friendly eye on the folks who work on my
> > coach
> > > > (rare).
> > >
> > > ...and since there is more money to made...
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Some folks overspin their engines. This'll kill the CAT.
The
> > way
> > > I
> > > > understand it the valve springs can't keep up and it eats a
> > valve.
> > >
> > > One company I worked for installed a CAT engine into one its
> medium
> > > duty trucks. It was replacing a Cummins. The thing I
remember
> > about
> > > driving that truck after the swap was how quickly the CAT
engine
> > > peaked out in each gear. You definitely had to watch the tach.
> > >
> > >
> > > > These coaches were built when the national speed limit was
55
> > and
> > > > most were geared for about 65 max. So unless you install a
new
> > > rear
> > > > end or larger tires, that's all you should do. As you know,
> the
> > > > governor won't slow the engine if the driver wants to point
> the
> > rig
> > > > downhill and mat the pedal and some tach's are in need of
> > > > adjustments after many years.
> > >
> > > Out here in California, we have the Grapevine heading north
out
> of
> > Los
> > > Angeles. On the north side, northbound, the speed limit for
> > trucks is
> > > 35 mph. I downshift my 78,000 pound truck into 6th gear,
engage
> > the
> > > Jake brake, and cruise down that grade at 18 mph, never
touching
> > the
> > > brake pedal. I am constantly amazed at all the motorhomes
that
> > pass
> > > me going full tilt down that mountain. I mean, they are
keeping
> up
> > > with the cars that are going down at 75 mph. You can hear the
> > engines
> > > winding out tight.
> > >
> > > > There's always the temptation to be motoring on down the
> road,
> > but
> > > > hey, if there's a house on your back, what's the hurry?
You're
> > > >already there.
> > >
> > > Our plan is to full time, so this is exactly our philosophy.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > The engines are all very staunch, heavy duty top line
units.
> > But
> > > > they're only bulletproof with proper maintenance.
> > > >
> > > > I wouldn't make the assumption that all the engines have a
> > > checkered
> > > > past though. What you are seeing is a small percentage of
> > coaches
> > > > that have been misunderstood by their owners and are being
> sold.
> > >
> > > It appears from the responses to my question from everyone
that
> > there
> > > is no issue regarding the durability of the engines used in the
> > > Bluebird.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I would look for an owner who baby's his coach, changes
fluids
> > and
> > > > keeps records, gets oil samples, and generally would rather
> keep
> > > his
> > > > coach than sell it. Oh wait...that's me!
> > >
> > > My wife is very impressed with your coach. I have to remind
her
> > what
> > > our plans are and that 35 feet is the minimum we've decided
on.
> > Now
> > > if you could figure out how to extend your unit 2-3 feet... :>)
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Gary Miller
> > > > 83 FC 33 - For Sale 'millercoachworks.com'
> > > > Milwaukee area
> > > >